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Groovemeister
Joined: 05 Dec 2005
Posts: 797
Location: London, UK
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 Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:01 pm Post subject: Jeff Porcaro & Gaucho... |
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Hey guys,
I often think about and picture Jeff in my head, playing in the studio when he tracked Gaucho, and I stumbled on this article (with the help of a mate from another forum).
I really think his playing on this particular title track really epitomises "Musical Drumming". The ghostly snare ruffs and drags, the comping and catching the hits and the dynamic use of the hats, all without shifting from the rock solid, ass crumbling groove.
It's interesting to see this article on how it was put together...
http://www.granatino.com/sdresource/20katz.htm
What's everybody else's thoughts on this track? It's probably in my top three Steely Dan tunes. High among the reasons why is simply because of Jeff's contribution...
MP
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drumaddix
Joined: 23 Dec 2005
Posts: 270
Location: Paris,France
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| Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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Isn't it Gadd on the "Gaucho" track?
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benrand
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
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Location: East Lansing, MI
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mja61
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Posts: 85
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| Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, "Gaucho" is one of my all time favorites. I just love the way Jeff shapes the groove with the ghost notes on the snare, the big contrast in dynamics, and the colorful cymbal work. The drum part is so responsive to the song, rather than just a foundation of a groove. He also plays some bad-ass fills going into the chorus sections.
That was an interesting article, too. I love any recaps of how things went down in the studio for particular records. Isn't it something that when you take Jeff's playing, break it apart bar by bar, and glue different pieces back together it still grooves seamlessly?!? :shock:
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pocketplayer
Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 1091
Location: Middle TN
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| Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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That's a great read! Katz discussed this in the MD special issue--Jeff Porcaro: A Special Tribute by Robyn Flans: Modern Drummer, 12/92.
A while back there was the actually Gaucho outtakes (bootleg). It includes "The Second Arrangement" which was accidentally erased, when an assistant engineer should prepare the tape for listening. For unknown reasons he thought he was at the tail header instead of the beginning when he put all 24 channels on "record". When he discovered his mistake, three quarters of the tune was already erased--finally replaced by "Third World Man" on the "Gaucho" album.
They used to be at: www.jeje.web.surftown.dk/sounds
The article, The Drummer's of Steely Dan also discusses some of Jeff's work on Gaucho:
| Quote: | Steely Dan album, Gaucho , and many drummers probably don't know what the fuss is all about, as Jeff Porcaro can attest to. "I did a clinic a couple or years ago at the Dick Grove School," Porcaro says in his groggy baritone. "The students brought CD of my stuff to play and ask me questions about. I knew what would happen; they'd ask about the 'Rosanna' beat, which is probably the most unoriginal thing I've ever done, yet I got all this credit for it. Stupid. So I brought along the CDs of the records I stole the beat from--"Fool In The Rain" from Led Zeppelin's In Through The Out Door, and Bernard Purdie's 'Home At Last' and 'Babylon Sisters' with Steely. Without saying anything, I put on the CD and played 'Babylon Sisters.' Half the class knew the song, but none of them knew who the drummer was. This is a class of 18 to 33-year-olds. Then I played 'Home At Last,' which I copped all the shit for 'Rosanna' from. Once again, no one knew the drummer. I said, 'Guys, it's Bernard Purdie. Who in this room has heard of Steve Gadd?' All the hands went up. 'Aja?' All hands up. 'I'm sure you all know Steve won Performance Of The Year for that in Modern Drummer. Well. you're all fucked up! I just played you 'Home At Last' with Bernard Purdie, and that's on the same record. What do you do, listen to 'Aja' and then take the needle off? As musicians you should know everything I just played for you. Some of the best drum shit ever is on that record. Each track has subtleties."
Porcaro, "That's at a point when drum machine technology was just rearing its ugly head. There was a lot of talk about the future of quantizing and sequencing in real time. To a perfectionist, that was all really cool stuff. The title track was done to a Urei click. In fact it was all Urei except 'Hey Nineteen,' which is WENDEL."
The title track, which Porcaro played on, is an epic bit of Mexican-inspired music, full of enigmatic lyrics and romantic female choruses. The Dan had perfected their recording approach by this time. "From noon till six we'd play the tune over and over and over again," says Porcaro, "nailing each part. We'd go to dinner and come back and start recording. They made everybody play like their life depended on it. But they weren't gonna keep anything anyone else played that night, no matter how tight it was. All they were going for was the drum track." (The final product was a combination of 46 edits.) |
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drummin1
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 255
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 7:51 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, I think that track in particular exemplifies how to leave space in drumming. He really let's the song breath and build. The ride cymbal work on the chorus sections is sweet too!
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Peter C
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
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Location: Evanston, IL
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| Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 8:01 am Post subject: |
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That album is one of the books
of the Drumming Bible.
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Gavin Harrison
Joined: 04 Feb 2006
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Location: London
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| Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 8:40 am Post subject: |
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Wow, if it has that many edits in it - they sure made a great job of it considering it would have been done with a razor blade and sticky tape. The groove is constant throughout. It's the kind of thing that would be hard enough to do with Pro Tools nowdays.
Jeff is so musical on that track - I absolutely love it.
Cheers
Gavin
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Rodge
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 989
Location: Bordeaux (France)
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| Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 9:50 am Post subject: Re: |
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| benrand wrote: | | Nah, it was Steve Gadd's clone, flown in at triple scale, no less. |
Hi Benrand,
Maybe that I did not understand if it was a joke or whatever, so ignire me if so...
But I really don't think that Jeff is Steve Gadd's clone.
He has his own and unique voice, and he's more "rock" than Steve too.
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Gavin Harrison
Joined: 04 Feb 2006
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Location: London
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| Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 10:47 am Post subject: |
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Rodge,
it's a joke - actually from a Frank Zappa track on (I think) Joe's Garage.
"A Little Green Rosetta" ?
Cheers
Gavin
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Groovemeister
Joined: 05 Dec 2005
Posts: 797
Location: London, UK
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| Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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I effin’ love this board…
Thanks so much for your lovely contributions guys. Like I say, this really is a favourite of mine and an album I could listen to all day, every day. You're so right Pete, the drumming on this album is a benchmark. When you consider that guys weren't using clicks on the majority of this album the solidity of the playing beggars belief. (Not that a click is a prerequisite to a solid track, but the playing is metronomically perfect...)
Gavin too true, the editing shouldn’t go unsung. I can’t imagine the time that would take in front of a computer, and to think all that editing was done with razorblades and tape…
Tracks 1 to 4 list like this…
1. Babylon Sisters/Bernard Purdie – playing that famous shuffle. Effortless, frighteningly consistent, totally groovy and more than perfect for this song…
2. Hey Nineteen/Rick Marotta – Again, it’s scary how consistent the dynamics and the quality of timing is in this track. Marotta is one groovy mo-fo…
3. Glamour Profession/Steve Gadd – Gadd doing what Gadd does best. He lays it down and plays the funkiest of simple parts. The upbeat accents on the hi hat really give it a unique sense of motion.
4. Gaucho/Jeff Porcaro – We’ve talked about this, but I don’t think you can ever say enough about Jeff’s playing on this track. That hi hat sound!! Anyone know what he was using? Randy? Pocket? LA Danny? I still think he overdubbed some of the snare ruffs and drags to get them as full and clean as they are..
This is just the first half people! I think this is Steely Dan’s most overlooked work… I’m going away to listen to it now…
MP
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drummin1
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 255
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 4:56 pm Post subject: Re: |
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| Groovemeister wrote: | I effin’ love this board…
That hi hat sound!! Anyone know what he was using? Randy? Pocket? LA Danny? I still think he overdubbed some of the snare ruffs and drags to get them as full and clean as they are..
MP |
Porcaro loved his Paiste 602s, probably those......
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benrand
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Posts: 1647
Location: East Lansing, MI
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| Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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Rodge, check out Joe's Garage...
I was being a smart ass, I get that way sometimes man, this week more than others for whatever reason...I think Zappa was screwing with the record industry hiring Gadd for eveyrthing, every record, every jingle, every soft drink commercial.
Joe's Garage is one of my fave records, Vin's drumming is beyond...maybe that's why the Sting shit and his playing recently leave me blase, that album was the explosion of the idea of playing drums to me, I still can't believe some of the stuff played on there.
Thanks Gavin, it's a Little Green Rosetta...the White zone is for loading and unloading.
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Rodge
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 989
Location: Bordeaux (France)
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| Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Guys,
Yeah I know of course "Little Green Rosetta" from Joe's Garage, I was sure that I was missing the joke here anyway...
All right.
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