on the subject of fundraising for projects

[Phil Maturano]

Hi All....
Just getting some feedback if possible. I see that there is a thread about a fundraiser for a project on this board.
I am wondering how you all feel about this. I am afraid...that this is the wave of the future due to pirating. It seems that funds to produce major projects are scarce because no one can make money back except....through preorders. Once the project is out there...ciao amigo...its a free for all.

My opinion is (if anyone cares) That we have to get used to this and accept it as the way things are going to be. My own new projects, although a lot of the funding is in place...still need more. Its not easy or cheap to produce anything of quality even if you do it yourself. So...it seems to me that this is the only way things can go right now.

Thoughts?

Regards
PM

[DSOP]

I've been wondering the same thing. I don't think the pre-buy or fundraising is the long term solution, but for now, it seems like it's worth a shot. Long term I'm hoping that more revenue streams (Spotify, Pandora, Blackberry) will lead to more opportunity. Or maybe even some sort of proprietary music players that have no way of extracting the audio/video file directly.

[cjbdrm]

HD cameras, computers,ecording equipment, and software are a lot cheaper and more accessible than they used to be...for better or worse. Maybe not easy or cheap, but not expensive either...

[Lucas Ives]

Or maybe even some sort of proprietary music players that have no way of extracting the audio/video file directly.

As soon as the user has the bits (encrypted or no), they will be hacked -- and of course there's ye olde analog hole. So I don't think the above can ever work....

My opinion, you need to sell the product at a price people consider worth paying. $15/CD was too high to major labels, seems to be more palatable to folks when supporting independent artists. $.99/song or $9.99 seems to be more appealing, but is a 30/70 split with Apple enough for artists?

.. I think like you mentioned, the spotify/last.fm model is the future .. in all facets of media. OnDemand, Netflix, Hulu, etc. Real à la carte cable is coming for the masses in the next couple of years.

kickstarter.com is interesting to me, have seen a lot of music projects successfully funded that way ... but I wonder if it'll only work now while it's a novelty?

[Morgenthaler]

Interesting subject. Fundraising is definitely hot right now. I am awestruck/dumbfounded by the fact that Nataly Dawn asked for $20,000 (quite a large sum of money)
and got $80,000 for her upcoming recording! YouTube, Soundcloud etc. makes it easy to share your ideas, your initial talent - and Kickstarter, Flattr etc. makes it easy
to initiate funding of more produced/professional material. + It has become increasingly cheaper to start recording demo stuff in your own home.

But obviously, if you make it very easy for people, they will pay for the end product as well. Just look at the iTunes Store.
I think the biggest obstacle for the music industry is that there are still folks there who remember the days of vinyl and the early days of cd's.
Until they are gone, perhaps we will have very little development and innovation coming from the music industry it self and more from related industries, like when Apple
launched iTunes Store.

[sejuba]

how much does it cost for a major label to put out a pop record (14 songs) these days ?
I just want to know the costs envolved in the recording/mixing/mastering process.

who needs labels anyway if you have the internet ?

who cares if you´re selling way less records than in the 90´s if your % in sales are much bigger now ?

i´d guess that with 10-12k you can put some serious record out.

forget about trying to protect digital data... its a waste of time and a waste of money.

people WILL continue buying stuff if the price is right...yes, you´ll sell less records, but...

in brazil, there´s a law that will allow companies to finance (art) projects in exchange for not having to pay all their taxes.

[Kurtis]

if you are some what established artist you can do what Nataly Dawn has done. donate money to fund a project. once the desired amount the artist meets they release it. once the album is out it's free of course. pray there is no leak and if there is it's the people around you did it. the artist made some cash and everyone is happy. guess you really need to depend on people who can afford to help fund your project. a good starting point is youtube. a great product goes viral. best of luck phil. we all feel your pain.

[Phil Maturano]

Hey cats! great answers! Thank you. Very interesting. I was actually thinking of making a video for youtube explaining what this next project is in detail. To start a serious fundraising campaign. But...somehow it hits me strange. Maybe I am outdated. hhaaaaaaa. Maybe i dont understand the pros and cons completely here. But it does seem like a good idea. Another friend of mine just raised 6000 in TWO weeks for his new CD!! WOW. Kickstarter or kickstart did it.

I would be interested in any opinions from you guys about this campaign. If you have time please write me and I will send you a link for feedback. Its basically a presales page. But i would love any advice from you who are more aware of this process. If its something worthwhile i think its a great mistake to NOT do it because of misunderstanding it.

On the other hand....I wonder...most guys of course are going to pirate this thing. The people that do...They watch low quality versions of most all drumming DVDs (from what i have seen) This may but a nutty question but...Does anyone even care anymore about nice production values? I certainly do but...maybe im outdated LOL.


On a very personal note, it doesnt feel good that folks would rather pirate stuff like instructional products rather then pay a measly 20 bucks. And Pre orders does seem to be a solution.

[cjbdrm]

I don't think you will ever stop pirating but it can be reduced to a degree...mostly by making the products more affordable but also making it more difficult to copy...

I have a few ideas for the latter- maybe they've been thought of before, maybe not...For instance, how about a unique identifier on each physical DVD? As opposed to multiple copies of the same DVD. Require personal information from each buyer...if one gets copied you can trace it back to the source. The threat of accountability may serve as a deterrent. I'm sure this has been thought of before- but it's something I would personally do for a small-scale project.

I also would put out false torrent copies of the DVD to frustrate piraters...possibly with maliciious software- LOL

[Lucas Ives]

I don't think you will ever stop pirating but it can be reduced to a degree...mostly by making the products more affordable but also making it more difficult to copy...

There's no such thing as difficult to copy when at the end of the day the rightful owner has to be able decode the media.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analog_hole

Again, as soon as I have the bits, encrypted or not, it's game over. MacroVision, Content Scrambling System, mp4/DRM, the road is littered with failed attempts to do this.

I have a few ideas for the latter- maybe they've been thought of before, maybe not...For instance, how about a unique identifier on each physical DVD? As opposed to multiple copies of the same DVD. Require personal information from each buyer...if one gets copied you can trace it back to the source. The threat of accountability may serve as a deterrent. I'm sure this has been thought of before- but it's something I would personally do for a small-scale project.

Digital watermarking has been tried before with films -- each print was given a unique set of red dots, kind of like braille, that would flash periodically during the movie. The MPAA hoped to use them to trace pirated copies back to the distribution source. This didn't work, and ended up just being annoying to theater goers.

Anyway, if people/industry started doing this it's trivial to strip the information.

I also would put out false torrent copies of the DVD to frustrate piraters...possibly with maliciious software- LOL

Not sure you're serious, but in any case: the crowd-sourced nature of sites like TPB would mean that the fakes would be weeded out pretty quickly. Madonna tried this with mp3s back in the Napster days.

There is no technological solution, the arms race will always be won by the pirates. What you need to exploit is people, and the fact that most are willing to pay for something if they feel it's being made available at a fair price, and the creator is the one being compensated.