Official Virgil Donati thread

[Morgenthaler]

Nice Kurtis! I caught the trio twice, a few years back, one with Haslip and one with Anthony Crawford on bass. I favored Anthony slightly, but Haslip surprised me immensely.
Virgil on fire - live, up close. Nothing beats that.

[Pocketplayer]

Road vid: prog rock Vs rock and roll...two separate animals entirely.

rock: women, liquor, smokes, hotel room
prog rock: mountain philosophy, sight seeing, walks together, chocolate bars

...they seem to enjoy each other. now play grooves long enough to feel the
energy before going into syncopated masturbation...sorry, this music tends
to lump together for me.

On the Virg is not trumped with this new recording! it was amazing in 1999

[Morgenthaler]

On that note - I *just* got a nice little piece of info from Modern Drummer

[Steve Holmes]

The Holdsworth show at the Canyon Club had several bumps in the road, it happens I suppose. The band got disconnected several times, several transitions from fill-to-groove were a bit iffy. My non-musician friend kept turning around to me when those happened with a WTF face so even he noticed. His drumming is just such a non-stop dense note storm that it never ever settles and grooves, even during a bass solo. So if you're going to play like that and stumble a little bit, the flow and time gets noticeably interrupted.
Having said that his facility and speed are amazing and he is a significant player in today's drumming in terms of pushing the limits on the kit. But this is what I heard that night.

[Kurtis]

Virgil's new album is going to be an orchestral vibe. Should be good times

[Morgenthaler]

Here's a keys+drums take of the groove from Paradise Lost including a *nasty* fill at 0:13

[Pocketplayer]

I liked that Morg! Listening without watching is more significant for me.
I think when listening, I heard a subject discussed a lot back when Dave was
w/Freddie centered on ergonomics and pulling the notes OUT of the drum
over playing INTO the drum impacting not only health but sound quality,
drawing out the more natural sound of the drum.

Virg is as close to any drummer that totally plays INTO the drum
and the rule here was you will destroy your ligaments and cause a lot of
hurt. Well, the man is what, 55, and in better shape than anyone on the
planet regarding speed and endurance, SO??? Is he just a freak or does
he employ a level of control while playing INTO that most simply do not?

I agree w/Steve's comment...seen Virg Live a lot (not in past few years
however) and always complained about the "throw too much into ea song"
and never maintain a repetitive phrasing allowing the audience to LOCK
into a groove which for me is just satisfying.

Imo, this might be due to the excessive isolated practicing which is very self-absorbing
meaning it is all about what "I" want to hear. Times this by 1000s of hours and now we have
a habit. Most drummers would never get away with this while playing with
others, but when you are so talented and intelligent, there are exceptions...
however in the end, music is music and when I got over the "this guy is a
freak of nature" I wanted to hear pocket and groove, as I would in any genre
of music...and I get his style of "prog rock" has a TON of jagged, syncopated phrasing
but there must be FLOW and restraint or it hits me like speaking w/someone w/ADD
bouncing from idea to idea to idea to idea leaving me tired and worn out or wanting
to leave the conversation.

jmo...his snare sound is always killer!

[Dave Goodman]

VD had a MASSIVELY successful career as a freelance drummer down in Melbourne and sometimes also here in Sydney from the late '70s right up until he moved to LA in '95. I saw him live with a pop band called Southern Sons several times and he was the perfect rock drummer. I also saw him on TV a lot with pop acts as well as in an arena setting playing Jesus Christ Superstar. He embellished as much as any good improviser would on a gig where the opportunity to take the liberty to do so was obviously there. He may have flubbed here or there, but so have all the greats I've heard.

At the same time he very obviously had a creative vision set toward what he's doing now and he very intelligently used his high profile to realise that vision. He very diligently used those years of tradesman-like service to learn more about people and performance so that he could ultimately make the right CHOICES that would consequently allow him to continually choose to be the master of his own artistic domain.

I'm sorry if I'm coming across defensively or as though im trying to "affiliate" with Virgil and his whole aesthetic - I'm not. I just think it helps to be informed by more contextual detail when it comes to critiquing the choices that artists make. The use of the word "groove" in this context is dubious to me. My own favourite definition of groove comes from Vinnie when he said "groove is the natural consequence of the flow of music." What do people mean when they say "groove" and "pocket" in relation to a Virgil Donati anyway? Do they mean they yearn for something repetitive and machine-like with little to no improvisation? Or something else? To expect or demand something like that is, I think, as naïve as expecting more realism from Dali. It simply just isn't the aesthetic.

I did have the experience of seeing Virgil with Tribal Tech here in Sydney quite some time ago though, and that was very obviously a case of incompatible musicianship and aesthetic qualities in a band. It was most likely put together by a promoter who served up contractual obligations that the guys had to suffer through until the tour's end. We all know what it's like to be on a gig where there's no rapport in the band. We don't dwell on it, we just say "thank you very much," put our invoices in, go home, go to bed and forget about it right? And then there are those dream gigs where the stars align, the band is virtually married and it's fireworks all night. Now THAT to me is groove no matter the style or genre. It's "swingin'" or "rockin'" - synonymous terms in my vernacular.

But to groove like that AND to maintain an original voice and vocabulary that is rare and distinctly identifiable amongst literally millions of other speakers of the same language: THAT is a high calling and it certainly couldn't be possible every time.

[Old Pit Guy]

I'm sorry if I'm coming across defensively or as though im trying to "affiliate" with Virgil and his whole aesthetic - I'm not. I just think it helps to be informed by more contextual detail when it comes to critiquing the choices that artists make. The use of the word "groove" in this context is dubious to me. My own favourite definition of groove comes from Vinnie when he said "groove is the natural consequence of the flow of music." What do people mean when they say "groove" and "pocket" in relation to a Virgil Donati anyway? Do they mean they yearn for something repetitive and machine-like with little to no improvisation? Or something else? To expect or demand something like that is, I think, as naïve as expecting more realism from Dali. It simply just isn't the aesthetic.

I do not think the word groove is dubious in any context. In this instance, the criticism is because someone feels the amount of drum verbiage has become an unwelcome distraction, and if in the execution of all that the transitions get sloppy it compounds the problem. If the aesthetic is babbling then I suppose it's all good.

[Morgenthaler]

Paradise Variations. Virtuosos dosen't begin to describe these guys