Heroes/Idols and Hypersensitivity

[langmick]

when you insult someone's hero, a hero they're emotionally invested in because of a personality-related connection, it feels a bit like you're insulting them or their choices - on a subconscious level, and rightly or wrongly.

Bulls-eye!

Can someone explain this "personality-related connection" to me? I just don't get it. If someone insults something I like, why on earth would the upshot of that be for me to take that personally? For example, there's always the guy who disagrees with conventional wisdom … say they don't like Vinnie Colaiuta's style at all. Would you become upset by that? It's the same for anyone or thing, isn't it? Or is it truly a matter of hero worship? I guess what I'm saying is that I understand this if you're still a juvenile, but as an adult it makes no sense to me. It has to be pathological on some level to take a bad opinion from someone else about someone else as a personal insult.

Just look at euro soccer...people go batshit over that stuff, same with football, politics.

Same principle. Living lives through others, perhaps to mask feelings of loneliness or inadequacy.

The smart amongst us, or depraved depending on POV, exploit this.

But it's all weird.

[Old Pit Guy]

Can someone explain this "personality-related connection" to me? I just don't get it. If someone insults something I like, why on earth would the upshot of that be for me to take that personally? For example, there's always the guy who disagrees with conventional wisdom … say they don't like Vinnie Colaiuta's style at all. Would you become upset by that?

You're giving two different examples. Something I like, as opposed to conventional wisdom. They may coincide, but no one really cares if someone insults conventional wisdom, they care if something or something they're invested in emotionally, is insulted. How is that hard to understand? I'm not saying it's in any way sensible, but anyone with empathy can surely understand it.

It's the same for anyone or thing, isn't it? Or is it truly a matter of hero worship? I guess what I'm saying is that I understand this if you're still a juvenile, but as an adult it makes no sense to me. It has to be pathological on some level to take a bad opinion from someone else about someone else as a personal insult.

I don't think so. If I walk into your house and say, hey your kitchen is a shit-hole, the artwork on your walls is abhorrent, I hate this place, you'd get insulted. (Save me the reply saying how you wouldn't be - I get it, you're invulnerable and don't care about anything ever, much less someone off the internet.) You'd be insulted because I'm judging the choices you've made. Drumming heroes are choices too, so you're insulting the taste of the person.

Personally I wouldn't be insulted by someone insulting Vinnie, even though he's my drumming hero, but that doesn't mean I can't empathise with people who take offence in these situations.

No, no no. Let's stay on topic. But first, I'm not at all talking about two different things above. I'm stating that it's conventional wisdom in this example (Vinnie Colaiuta) that any really negative opinion is off, and someone insults that person (V.C.) anyway. Why get upset? I'm not upset at the thinly-veiled barbs in your post, but by what you're saying, if I'm correct, I should be upset by your implication that I'm unfeeling and possess little empathy. I'm not. The problem here is you're conflating a real world situation with anonymous net interaction, and about an opinion involving a third party that, in all likelihood, neither party knows personally.

More to the point, and staying on topic, we're referring to the Internet and disagreements over an opinion. That's the crux of it. Not someone coming into my kitchen or insulting anyone in any way, shape or form in person. We have to make that distinction because I feel that's important, and it's also the OP's question. I understand becoming upset over an insult, and of course I would likely be upset if insulted personally and in person. I can even make the stretch to feeling somewhat insulted on the net by a stranger if the insult hits close to home in some way. Where I lose this line of thinking is when it's anonymous, it's over the net, and it's strictly a matter of opinion, and an opinion over a stranger to both parities, as in "The guy you like [insult or negative opinion of guy here]." That's the topic question, along with a relation of that to Hero-Worship.

[Pocketplayer]

Some might feel the below doesn't apply, but from a secular POV, this stuff if spot on for me;
http://www.masculinity-movies.com/articles/king-warrior-magician-lover

For every one of our "identities" there is a shadow or imbalance. This can be triggered
and is triggered daily (if we are aware)...and even if we are not (for men, in a word, anger).
Why do we get angry? Why can two men witness similar experiences and one laughs while
the other storms out of the room or gets violent?

Shadows have their own inner voice;
I'm not good enough
I'm inadequate
I will never measure up
(fill in your own personal statement)

Shadows can motivate someone to intense levels of accomplishment, but they will always sabotage
as well. This is classically seen in the great drummer who cannot maintain a healthy relationship
with a spouse or his kids or...

The classic "Buddy rants" demonstrate the tyrant king shadow. What works on stage might not work
at all off-stage.

Simple example (of course this is one of a complex set of different possibilities):
When the friend comes over to your house and makes a flippant comment on your art hanging over the
living room couch, it is never about the piece of art, it is about the shadow that got triggered.
"I pride myself on having great taste in art...I have great taste in art because I have studied art history...
I studied art history because art represents beauty and spirituality...I seek beauty and spirituality
because I long for a sense of connection and wholeness in a fragmented chaotic world...art gave me
comfort when my dad used to go on drunkin' bouts and yell at my mom."

Everyone has their own story with rich personal details.

In a nano-second, that flippant comment about art can trigger all these buried emotions...and if we are
honest, most of us are totally unaware of our shadows. Usually, there is just a negative feeling about the person
that made the comment and always a bit of distance. It is here we have shadow-on-shadow relating.
The person who made the comment judges from their own shadow (this guy is pretentious with all the art
around the house...he threatens me because I either know a lot about art and need validation or my brother
is an art lover and he is a prick so...). Shadows can run endlessly for each person.

Replace art with anything someone makes a comment about that triggers you. Almost always, there is a dark
shadow that has not come to light.

Exploring shadows is hard work...it's easier to get angry or withdraw or...

Just my comment on the subject.

[gretsch-o-rama]

Some might feel the below doesn't apply, but from a secular POV, this stuff if spot on for me;
http://www.masculinity-movies.com/articles/king-warrior-magician-lover

For every one of our "identities" there is a shadow or imbalance. This can be triggered
and is triggered daily (if we are aware)...and even if we are not (for men, in a word, anger).
Why do we get angry? Why can two men witness similar experiences and one laughs while
the other storms out of the room or gets violent?

Shadows have their own inner voice;
I'm not good enough
I'm inadequate
I will never measure up
(fill in your own personal statement)

Shadows can motivate someone to intense levels of accomplishment, but they will always sabotage
as well. This is classically seen in the great drummer who cannot maintain a healthy relationship
with a spouse or his kids or...

The classic "Buddy rants" demonstrate the tyrant king shadow. What works on stage might not work
at all off-stage.

Simple example (of course this is one of a complex set of different possibilities):
When the friend comes over to your house and makes a flippant comment on your art hanging over the
living room couch, it is never about the piece of art, it is about the shadow that got triggered.
"I pride myself on having great taste in art...I have great taste in art because I have studied art history...
I studied art history because art represents beauty and spirituality...I seek beauty and spirituality
because I long for a sense of connection and wholeness in a fragmented chaotic world...art gave me
comfort when my dad used to go on drunkin' bouts and yell at my mom."

Everyone has their own story with rich personal details.

In a nano-second, that flippant comment about art can trigger all these buried emotions...and if we are
honest, most of us are totally unaware of our shadows. Usually, there is just a negative feeling about the person
that made the comment and always a bit of distance. It is here we have shadow-on-shadow relating.
The person who made the comment judges from their own shadow (this guy is pretentious with all the art
around the house...he threatens me because I either know a lot about art and need validation or my brother
is an art lover and he is a prick so...). Shadows can run endlessly for each person.

Replace art with anything someone makes a comment about that triggers you. Almost always, there is a dark
shadow that has not come to light.

Exploring shadows is hard work...it's easier to get angry or withdraw or...

Just my comment on the subject.

In your world no one would have self-control. Not a world that I ascribe to or would want for myself. Surely, as drummers we must understand what it means to control ourselves...because how could we ever control our physically demanding instrument if we can't control ourselves? I mean physicality is one thing and the mind and emotions are something else...But given that we all live in physical realities i.e. limitations and what have you, I believe we should consign ourselves to our physical realities, because I think that's the most "real" we can have....

[Old Pit Guy]

To the OP .. I think it boils down to trolling and insecurity. And I also think it would be a rare occurrence if not for the net.