Weckl can't groove? Really?

[gruvdoctr]

I read a review last night of Weckl's Live and PLugged In cd from a guy who posted his "opinion" on Amazon. He said it was "boring" and just a chops fest. Weckl's playing "lacked groove" as he put it. Now, as far as I'm concerned, music (as in any other art form) is a matter of taste.

If this fellow was serious in his comments, all he would need to do is listen to Steve Khan's Public Access record to hear how Weckl can groove. But, then again that recording maybe over his head.

"Boring" and "lacked groove"... That is without question the most stupid thing I have ever read in my life!

he get's for a comment like that!

[Robert Bluman]

Happy New Year BTW...You can't argue with someone's opinion. It's an opinion. Music makes people feel a certain way. If they don't attain this emotion because a player leaves them cold, then so be it. What I notice on this board is that drumming is talked about as if there are certain requirements that must be met for a drummer to be great. What I find, is that this is not so. Particularly in the world of jazz where great drummers like Paul Motian for example or Bob Moses do not play the instrument from a drumistic or rudimental point of view. They play the way any other top artist plays. With originality. Weckl does what he wants, and subjective jazz listeners will state their opinions about it. My favorite types of opinions are those that come from discerning listeners who aren't musicians. They have no idea how many hours were put it in to achieve certain techniques and polyrhythms. They just listen and feel. It's a great a point of view actually because it's an artistic point of view, and it's really the whole point of music. To enjoy the sounds. Weckl appears to be hated as much as he is loved. I hear this type of opinion from many experienced jazz listeners and musicians who are not drummers. "He left me cold". To be honest, he leaves me cold many times. In awe of his ability, but emotionally cold. Then when you say hi to him after a show, he's even colder. There may be an element of truth to "musicians play their personalities". When I listen to Vinnie, I feel warmth, even with all of the complicated drumming. My opinion on Weckl's groove? He can groove his butt off. I think he has a particular groove, and I like it, even though it's not what I would call "deep". It's still something wonderful and top notch. I wouldn't get down on someone for stating their opinion. It's a bit of a negative reflection on him to critique a top player in that way, but like you said, it's a matter of taste. Many people believe great time, and great groove are 2 different things. No doubt Weckl's time is flawless.

[Rodge]

Well said Robert, I like what you say here.

[cjbdrm]

Nice post Robert.

[Ardent15]

Some people honestly don't like Weckl's playing. Part of the issue is that much of the music he plays could be called "musician's music", for lack of a better term. I also think Weckl's got a reputation, deserved or not, of being an "overly technical" player sometimes. People will hear about that, listen to his music and playing with that expectation, and agree with that view.

My view? He's one of the greatest drummers/musicians alive. I love how he never ceases to improve and revamp his own playing, even at age 51 (!) And he really can groove and lay it down: just listen to his work with Oz Noy, for example.

As far as the comparisons to Vinnie go....Vinnie is the man, I agree, but so is Weckl, in a DIFFERENT way. While the two have many similarities and have played for some of the same people, they are also quite distinctive from each other (and from others!) in many ways. No sense in comparing too much, IMHO.

[gruvdoctr]

Robert made some good points. What I was trying to convey was this...
If another person and myself were watching the same gig or clinic and I liked it and they
didn't, that's OK. I agree, not everyone likes the same thing. But don't say that it didn't groove or the guy can't play.
The groove may not be to your satisfaction, but it still grooves. If you are a musician, and you can't play, you don't work!

If I walked into an art museum and saw a Picasso hanging there, one of two things would be said. Either I like it, or I
Don't. If I elaborated and said "I don't feel he used enough of an abstract feel blah, blah, blah" that would show my ignorance because I wouldn't have a clue as to what I was talking about. It's still a masterpiece painting.

I felt that the reviewer plainly said that Weckl could not play a groove... maybe not to his liking, but it was still grooving.

[sejuba]

i think you're devoting too much time into a retarded post ! just kidding

Nicely put Robert. Couldn't agree more.