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Re: VINNIE - The thread about Colaiuta

Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:53 am
by Odd-Arne Oseberg

Re: VINNIE - The thread about Colaiuta

Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:38 am
by Steve Holmes
Wow - 2001 talk about a blast from the past. Pretty interesting. Thanks for sharing.

Re: VINNIE - The thread about Colaiuta

Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:40 pm
by beat hit
Tight!

Re: VINNIE - The thread about Colaiuta

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:16 am
by Juan Expósito
Paris 1988 clinic.
Part 1:


The rest here:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXGo1m ... olcySAXhAw

Re: VINNIE - The thread about Colaiuta

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:39 am
by Paul Marangoni
Rudy_Ment wrote:

Ah, good find.


It was posted on Vinnie's website for a few months. I think it cost around $1,200 to attend the two day recording workshop with Alan Parsons. Pretty good deal considering who and what was involved, but I can't help but wonder if the days of the recording engineer are just about finished.

Re: VINNIE - The thread about Colaiuta

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:55 pm
by Avi_drums
Paul Marangoni wrote:
Rudy_Ment wrote:

Ah, good find.


It was posted on Vinnie's website for a few months. I think it cost around $1,200 to attend the two day recording workshop with Alan Parsons. Pretty good deal considering who and what was involved, but I can't help but wonder if the days of the recording engineer are just about finished.


That's probably true given that the era of the 'recording musician' is over. That said, the 'in the box' stuff sounds horrible, to the relegated fringe group that actually gives a shit and knows the difference.

Scott Henderson mastered his latest 'album' on half inch, to 'smooth over the jagged, square peaks'...this type of gear is still in high demand and sought after.

Tape is linear and glues everything together. Storing sound in a non-linear list is a hack.

Re: VINNIE - The thread about Colaiuta

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:51 pm
by Paul Marangoni
Avi_drums wrote:
Tape is linear and glues everything together. Storing sound in a non-linear list is a hack.


Yeah, it makes sense when you think about it, but in practice, nobody can tell the difference if it's a good recording. As far as recording and mastering completely in the digital domain, the same holds true. When done well, you really can't tell the difference.

The only people seeking out old analog gear are people who didn't work with it back when that's all there was. Tape machines are not even available anymore. I think people should focus more on the music than on the gear used to record it. That is supposed to be the domain of the engineer.

Re: VINNIE - The thread about Colaiuta

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:41 pm
by Avi_drums
Paul Marangoni wrote:
Avi_drums wrote:
Tape is linear and glues everything together. Storing sound in a non-linear list is a hack.


Yeah, it makes sense when you think about it, but in practice, nobody can tell the difference if it's a good recording. As far as recording and mastering completely in the digital domain, the same holds true. When done well, you really can't tell the difference.

The only people seeking out old analog gear are people who didn't work with it back when that's all there was. Tape machines are not even available anymore. I think people should focus more on the music than on the gear used to record it. That is supposed to be the domain of the engineer.


You can't hear the sonic difference between say, In Through out the Door or The Wall and some dime a dozen 'in the box high end' digital recording??

Bounce them down to mp3, listen on ear buds and which one has more punch?

Digital handles high frequencies poorly because the information is stored in a list of disconnected square wave samples. Factor in latency issues, sampling errors, format conversions, and the list bares little resemblance to the original waveform. But nobody cares.

Scott Henderson states:
The guy who mastered the record, Joe Gastwirt, ran it to half-inch tape before he mastered it. The tape gives it that smooth sounding high-end that doesn’t hurt your ears when you turn it up.


Good tape machines are still sought after. A half-inch Studer I was recently looking at sold within a week. We have a full Avid HD native setup with Burl AD/DA converters, but I'm going to go to 2 inch tape, via a 40 input Trident first if I want the best sound quality. IT IS worth the hassle if you want that classic sound, and are willing to pay for it.

Re: VINNIE - The thread about Colaiuta

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:34 pm
by Paul Marangoni
I engineered for many years back in the 80s on all analog. 1", 2", 1/4". It can sound wonderful, but digital sounds great too. Many, many, many tests have been conducted and the results speak for themselves. People can't tell the difference. Scott Henderson's hearing probably ends at around 11kHz anyway.

Re: VINNIE - The thread about Colaiuta

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:52 pm
by Avi_drums
Paul Marangoni wrote:I engineered for many years back in the 80s on all analog. 1", 2", 1/4". It can sound wonderful, but digital sounds great too. Many, many, many tests have been conducted and the results speak for themselves. People can't tell the difference. Scott Henderson's hearing probably ends at around 11kHz anyway.


Can you name one big iconic rock drum sound recorded/mastered digitally in the box? The proof is in the pudding.

Everything is tarred with the same brush nowadays (ie pro tools algorithms). Listen to a classic rock station, it is a completely different sonic treatment.

Whether it is better is subjective. But the fact is, digital audio inherently has its own set of technical limitations, particularly for aggressive rock music with lots of high frequencies.

But it's kind of a moot point because 'rock music' has kind of gone the way of the dinosaur too.