So I moved to Austin Wednesday. And on my first night here I found a great little jazz club (The Elephant Room) downtown. There was a pretty ferocious big band playing there, and I noticed that the drummer was really good, even before noticing that he was sight-reading most of the tunes. I talked to the guy on a break and mentioned that I dug his playing. He asked if I played, and I told him that I did.
I think I might have made a pretty big mistake from there.
He asked what kind of stuff I was in to, and I told him that I tend toward fusion, Latin jazz, salsa and funk. He asked if I had a website or anything and if I might be interested in taking a gig or two from him. I was a little too surprised to know how to respond, so I said, "Well, I don't have a website, and I'm really still wanting to learn. I do have a few videos on YouTube, but I haven't really arrived as a player, and I haven't really been in a band for any significant length of time." Needless to say, the guy's demeanor changed to more of a I'm-just-being-courteous-to-you-now sort of vibe.
The trouble is that I think I could be a good asset to a fusion, funk, Latin and maybe even a straight-ahead group if they'd give me a shot. I think I have some skill on the instrument, even though I've only had a drumset for a few years, spread out over the last twenty. And I think I have decent instincts, musically. What I don't have is a lot of experience. I hesitate to say it, but I almost think that I could skip playing in a top-40 cover band, or whatever, and get right in to the deeper stuff. On the other hand, there's a lot to be said for paying one's dues and building his or her skill set from the bottom up. There's also a lot to be said for the thousands of talented cats who play in top-40 cover bands.
So my questions are these: Is there fusion in Austin? Is anyone playing stuff like the Dave Weckl Band does? Or like Michel Camilo does? Or Chick? Or even Virgil's band? Also, what can I say to prospective bandmates to get them to take me seriously, when I don't have much experience? It's not realistic to tell someone, "Hey, I know I'm green as hell here, but give me a little time to ramp up to where you are and I might be a great fit." In short, how do I get a gig with a group of the more advanced, gigging musicians in Austin, Texas, having so little experience? In fact, how do I get any gig at all?
For reference's sake, here's video of me playing. I know I've posted it on here before. I only post it again because I really want to get to work on this. Thanks in advace for helpful advice.
Solo Thing 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peKyCrGjcbw
Solo Thing 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klp69h6ivHc
P.S. I think the assumption most people make when they hear the obvious tenseness and un-solid-ness of the second video here is that I'm someone who plays drums regularly. I don't. I really, to this day, haven't invested a lot of time in developing my drumset playing. I'm kind of hoping that I have enough of "the Force" to simultaneously develop my craft and be gigging. The tempo discrepencies seem to clear right up when I get warm and my nerves calm.
Thanks again for helpful insight.
Advice Needed: How to Get Playing in Austin, Texas
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YamahaPlayer
- Posts: 537
- Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 6:23 am
Re: Advice Needed: How to Get Playing in Austin, Texas
There is, dang forgot his name, nice guy who posts on here a lot moved to Austin a bit ago. He'll chime in I'm sure.
However this -
- that's pretty much a suicide note for a musician.
Not sure what "force" you're referring too - but if it's anything other then the strictest of commitments to excellence on your instrument, you're S.O.L. on the working scene IMO.
I can't speak on Austin, but in most cases you're not going to get many shots. If you do and screw them up (aka "the force" lets you down), then you most likely will not be getting a call back.
Also keep in mind, you're 'competing' against people who have dedicated large portions of their lives, often on a daily basis, to developing their playing and craft. Many people on this forum studied drumset/percussion at a collegiate level, you will find that to be true for the majority of professional musicians. Not all, but a really big chunk of em.
The name of the game is not chops or how many notes you can throw down in a bar - it's about time, feel, groove, being flexible to situations, being easy to work with, READING and being dependable.
I would encourage you to go for it, but keep in mind that, for instance the fellow you talked to, is a professional. Being a pro means having your stuff together biss cards, website, samples of playing, confidence, professionalism in context of your industry.
Being aware of your limitations will be the issue, if you are weak on reading, taking a walk on swing gig will prob not be a good idea.
Practice, be friendly, accept any criticism with an open mind and be willing take a few hard knocks. It's a very doable thing, but like anything when you're coming from behind the curve - you'll have to work that much harder.
However this -
rpc wrote: I don't. I really, to this day, haven't invested a lot of time in developing my drumset playing. I'm kind of hoping that I have enough of "the Force" to simultaneously develop my craft and be gigging.
- that's pretty much a suicide note for a musician.
Not sure what "force" you're referring too - but if it's anything other then the strictest of commitments to excellence on your instrument, you're S.O.L. on the working scene IMO.
I can't speak on Austin, but in most cases you're not going to get many shots. If you do and screw them up (aka "the force" lets you down), then you most likely will not be getting a call back.
Also keep in mind, you're 'competing' against people who have dedicated large portions of their lives, often on a daily basis, to developing their playing and craft. Many people on this forum studied drumset/percussion at a collegiate level, you will find that to be true for the majority of professional musicians. Not all, but a really big chunk of em.
The name of the game is not chops or how many notes you can throw down in a bar - it's about time, feel, groove, being flexible to situations, being easy to work with, READING and being dependable.
I would encourage you to go for it, but keep in mind that, for instance the fellow you talked to, is a professional. Being a pro means having your stuff together biss cards, website, samples of playing, confidence, professionalism in context of your industry.
Being aware of your limitations will be the issue, if you are weak on reading, taking a walk on swing gig will prob not be a good idea.
Practice, be friendly, accept any criticism with an open mind and be willing take a few hard knocks. It's a very doable thing, but like anything when you're coming from behind the curve - you'll have to work that much harder.
Re: Advice Needed: How to Get Playing in Austin, Texas
Okay, well, first off, here's my post from the old forum when someone asked about Austin:
*Ahem. Ah, Austin, TX.
Well, without diving too much in to how I got here and making it about me...
I've been here a little over two years. I was playing with people within a few weeks of being out here (thank you internet), and for the better part of two years I've been playing an average of 3 nights a week- don't ask me to do the math, but looking back on my calender that seems about right. Anyway, I've got a regular gig with a band that's pretty fun on Monday nights (we get booked elsewhere some weekends too), and I'm starting to develop a bit of a small network that will call me for the odd gig (majority of the time very last minute). A lot of guys teach out here too, my guitar player for example, and his bread and butter is teaching and gigs.
I moved out here from LA mainly to save some money on living expenses (I pay less than half what I'd be paying for a place in LA) and bridge the gap towards my journey to NYC. There's some good people, some fun places to hang, a few neat little pubs, great Tex-Mex and BBQ food, even a few good Indian joints. The greenbelt and Barton Springs are fantastic places to have a swim, take a jog, hike, whatever. If you're into sports you've got one of the biggest college football towns (although UT isn't off to a great start this time round), and the job market is doing fairly well too... there's an interesting mix of the "hip"-indie-"I want to be different, just like everyone else" crowd and young professionals, though the majority of Austin leans to the left politically. And given all that, there's an ocean of attractive chicks too. Doesn't mean they're smart, doesn't mean their cool, but they're out there.
It gets really stinking hot out here in the summer. Very humid, when it rains it pours, and an inch of snow (rare) will shut the whole town down.
Okay, so back to this "Live Music Capital of the World" claim...
...yeah.
Don't get me wrong: there are TONS of places to play out here, and people are generally really welcoming to live music. HOWEVER- you're going to be playing a lot of alt-country and blues, especially if you roll down to 6th Street (4 blocks of bars, crazy on the weekends, get's a little old but you can still get down and have a good time) any night of the week. These joints don't really pay to well, you'll make a percentage of the bar and get some tips, that is assuming the band leader breaks things down evenly. At the same time, I've done some shirt & tie standards gigs at halls, private parties, etc, and played some of the nicer bar/restaurants (playing blues, rock, funk, country, etc) and made atleast a couple hundred bucks for a few hours of playing.
Now, this doesn't mean that you're going to be playing with good musicians all the time. Like the chicks, they're out there, but it's like anywhere else- you've gotta meet the right folks at the right time. The live music capital moniker also doesn't mean that people will pay attention to you, nor does it mean that people are going to know the difference between a good band and a shitty one. My Monday night gig, for example, is drastically different every week. Sometimes it's a ghost town, sometimes you get a bachelorette party, a business-conference staying a the downtown Hilton and a bunch of tourists in one night. Some nights you get all those people in the bar and they don't even clap or cheer when you finish, and sometimes you've got 15 people in there dancing their asses off, throwing 20's in the tip jar and buying you drinks.
The original music scene is (to me) is... well... I think it sucks. I haven't had good playing experiences with the original folks, if it's money, the tunes, them being egotistical and not knowing what the hell they're talking about, etc. Remind me to tell you the story of when I told a guitar player in an original band to f*ck off after he told me I wasn't playing the correct tempo...when I had a click track playing in my in-ears. People are proud to be "artists", have their own agenda to take over the musical world, and are (again, to me) too into trying to be "different" for the sake of being "different."
Granted, I don't think the above statements just apply to Austin... as mentioned already in the thread original music is over saturated and bland now days.
To wrap things up: I like this town. I've made some good friends, gotten some real experience in, learned a lot of lessons (musically and in life...), and at the end of the day, I've got my own place, pay all my bills (with some left over), have done a lot of playing in a (somewhat) short amount of time, found my favorite bar in the country (the Pour House Pub on Burnet), and plan on being here for another two years. If you can look past some of the bullshit, put in a little effort and remember to keep your head up and keep everything fun, Austin is a great town.
Hope that helps! Feel free to ask me anything!*
I don't want to discourage you or what you want to do out here, but Austin is NOT a town for fusion or jazz of anysort. The Elephant Room is cool at times, and you'll see some real players come through town every now and then. But other than that, there's a couple god-awful "jazz jams" in town run by people that don't really know the first thing about jazz.
If you want to make a living playing music in this town, it's a lot of old school top 40, blues, classic rock, country, etc. Just go down to 6th street any night of the week and you'll see.
In terms of getting gigs out here, (1) if you're not confident in you're playing than save yourself the embarrassment and rent out a room at Music Lab and get your stuff together. There are PLENTY of terrible players in this town. The other thing is if you do feel good about your playing, regardless of your "experience", then (2) BE CONFIDENT! Nobody, at any skill level, really wants to play with someone that says, "Hey, I want some gigs.... but I don't know that I've got enough experience." Dig?
I started out here two years ago, mainly by hanging a bit at some joints and by utilizing craigs list. As it is in any town, you'll have to zig-zag your way through a lot of bullshit, but you'll eventually find a few that can hold their own...
Like I said, I don't want to discourage you at all. I mean, I'd love to be playing be-bop and fusion and real Afro-Cuban and Brazilian stuff and getting paid for it... but it's very hard to come by in this town, and there really isn't a "scene" for it anyway...
Check your PM!
*Ahem. Ah, Austin, TX.
Well, without diving too much in to how I got here and making it about me...
I've been here a little over two years. I was playing with people within a few weeks of being out here (thank you internet), and for the better part of two years I've been playing an average of 3 nights a week- don't ask me to do the math, but looking back on my calender that seems about right. Anyway, I've got a regular gig with a band that's pretty fun on Monday nights (we get booked elsewhere some weekends too), and I'm starting to develop a bit of a small network that will call me for the odd gig (majority of the time very last minute). A lot of guys teach out here too, my guitar player for example, and his bread and butter is teaching and gigs.
I moved out here from LA mainly to save some money on living expenses (I pay less than half what I'd be paying for a place in LA) and bridge the gap towards my journey to NYC. There's some good people, some fun places to hang, a few neat little pubs, great Tex-Mex and BBQ food, even a few good Indian joints. The greenbelt and Barton Springs are fantastic places to have a swim, take a jog, hike, whatever. If you're into sports you've got one of the biggest college football towns (although UT isn't off to a great start this time round), and the job market is doing fairly well too... there's an interesting mix of the "hip"-indie-"I want to be different, just like everyone else" crowd and young professionals, though the majority of Austin leans to the left politically. And given all that, there's an ocean of attractive chicks too. Doesn't mean they're smart, doesn't mean their cool, but they're out there.
It gets really stinking hot out here in the summer. Very humid, when it rains it pours, and an inch of snow (rare) will shut the whole town down.
Okay, so back to this "Live Music Capital of the World" claim...
...yeah.
Don't get me wrong: there are TONS of places to play out here, and people are generally really welcoming to live music. HOWEVER- you're going to be playing a lot of alt-country and blues, especially if you roll down to 6th Street (4 blocks of bars, crazy on the weekends, get's a little old but you can still get down and have a good time) any night of the week. These joints don't really pay to well, you'll make a percentage of the bar and get some tips, that is assuming the band leader breaks things down evenly. At the same time, I've done some shirt & tie standards gigs at halls, private parties, etc, and played some of the nicer bar/restaurants (playing blues, rock, funk, country, etc) and made atleast a couple hundred bucks for a few hours of playing.
Now, this doesn't mean that you're going to be playing with good musicians all the time. Like the chicks, they're out there, but it's like anywhere else- you've gotta meet the right folks at the right time. The live music capital moniker also doesn't mean that people will pay attention to you, nor does it mean that people are going to know the difference between a good band and a shitty one. My Monday night gig, for example, is drastically different every week. Sometimes it's a ghost town, sometimes you get a bachelorette party, a business-conference staying a the downtown Hilton and a bunch of tourists in one night. Some nights you get all those people in the bar and they don't even clap or cheer when you finish, and sometimes you've got 15 people in there dancing their asses off, throwing 20's in the tip jar and buying you drinks.
The original music scene is (to me) is... well... I think it sucks. I haven't had good playing experiences with the original folks, if it's money, the tunes, them being egotistical and not knowing what the hell they're talking about, etc. Remind me to tell you the story of when I told a guitar player in an original band to f*ck off after he told me I wasn't playing the correct tempo...when I had a click track playing in my in-ears. People are proud to be "artists", have their own agenda to take over the musical world, and are (again, to me) too into trying to be "different" for the sake of being "different."
Granted, I don't think the above statements just apply to Austin... as mentioned already in the thread original music is over saturated and bland now days.
To wrap things up: I like this town. I've made some good friends, gotten some real experience in, learned a lot of lessons (musically and in life...), and at the end of the day, I've got my own place, pay all my bills (with some left over), have done a lot of playing in a (somewhat) short amount of time, found my favorite bar in the country (the Pour House Pub on Burnet), and plan on being here for another two years. If you can look past some of the bullshit, put in a little effort and remember to keep your head up and keep everything fun, Austin is a great town.
Hope that helps! Feel free to ask me anything!*
I don't want to discourage you or what you want to do out here, but Austin is NOT a town for fusion or jazz of anysort. The Elephant Room is cool at times, and you'll see some real players come through town every now and then. But other than that, there's a couple god-awful "jazz jams" in town run by people that don't really know the first thing about jazz.
If you want to make a living playing music in this town, it's a lot of old school top 40, blues, classic rock, country, etc. Just go down to 6th street any night of the week and you'll see.
In terms of getting gigs out here, (1) if you're not confident in you're playing than save yourself the embarrassment and rent out a room at Music Lab and get your stuff together. There are PLENTY of terrible players in this town. The other thing is if you do feel good about your playing, regardless of your "experience", then (2) BE CONFIDENT! Nobody, at any skill level, really wants to play with someone that says, "Hey, I want some gigs.... but I don't know that I've got enough experience." Dig?
I started out here two years ago, mainly by hanging a bit at some joints and by utilizing craigs list. As it is in any town, you'll have to zig-zag your way through a lot of bullshit, but you'll eventually find a few that can hold their own...
Like I said, I don't want to discourage you at all. I mean, I'd love to be playing be-bop and fusion and real Afro-Cuban and Brazilian stuff and getting paid for it... but it's very hard to come by in this town, and there really isn't a "scene" for it anyway...
Check your PM!
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Re: Advice Needed: How to Get Playing in Austin, Texas
YamahaPlayer wrote:There is, dang forgot his name, nice guy who posts on here a lot moved to Austin a bit ago. He'll chime in I'm sure.
I think that would be me?
.gif "Smile")
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Re: Advice Needed: How to Get Playing in Austin, Texas
rpc wrote:He asked what kind of stuff I was in to, and I told him that I tend toward fusion, Latin jazz, salsa and funk. He asked if I had a website or anything and if I might be interested in taking a gig or two from him. I was a little too surprised to know how to respond, so I said, "Well, I don't have a website, and I'm really still wanting to learn. I do have a few videos on YouTube, but I haven't really arrived as a player, and I haven't really been in a band for any significant length of time."
Huge mistake! Having a guy offering some work on your 1st night out was a blessing. You just say yes and give him your coordinates. When he calls, get a max of information: tunes, charts,...Practice the repertoire as much as you can before the gig, show up on time, be nice and play for the tune. It all starts from there.
I checked a bit of your videos and you seem to have enough coordination to play any style. All you have to do to get work is play good time. Don't throw your chops in the way if not required.
As to making a living playing only fusion, who can pretend to do it in any city?
All the guys we admire get their real bread and butter from other type of gigs.
Ok, maybe just Steve Smith...from Journey fame.
Re: Advice Needed: How to Get Playing in Austin, Texas
depends on your goal.
Around here (3 hrs south of Chicago), there are about ZERO fusion groups. The regular working drummers around here wear two hats: engineer and drummer. They also paid their dues in top 40 bands. I can't really speak for the jazz scene because it doesn't really exist outside of the community college; who do very little outside of traditional jazz (the scene is a dead end here, not my thing). I love jazz, but I don't hear it around here. And the only reading I've ever been asked to do was at a theatre gig (another topic, but the chart was not written by anyone who plays drums = it sucked, but I was paid well).
Basically if you want to play a lot; go hang at open stages for about a year; sell out and play top 40 for another year, find the 'artists' in the community, hopefully there are some. Get with them and create some music. Money? no, no money in any of that, aside from maybe the larger top 40 gigs.
Oh yeah, you really should practice if you really like playing. it's more rewarding to build your craft and create your own sound. Not practicing hasn't really seemed to work for you, so try something different.
btw, I don't mean to sound aggressive. just honest based on my experience.
Around here (3 hrs south of Chicago), there are about ZERO fusion groups. The regular working drummers around here wear two hats: engineer and drummer. They also paid their dues in top 40 bands. I can't really speak for the jazz scene because it doesn't really exist outside of the community college; who do very little outside of traditional jazz (the scene is a dead end here, not my thing). I love jazz, but I don't hear it around here. And the only reading I've ever been asked to do was at a theatre gig (another topic, but the chart was not written by anyone who plays drums = it sucked, but I was paid well).
Basically if you want to play a lot; go hang at open stages for about a year; sell out and play top 40 for another year, find the 'artists' in the community, hopefully there are some. Get with them and create some music. Money? no, no money in any of that, aside from maybe the larger top 40 gigs.
Oh yeah, you really should practice if you really like playing. it's more rewarding to build your craft and create your own sound. Not practicing hasn't really seemed to work for you, so try something different.
btw, I don't mean to sound aggressive. just honest based on my experience.
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Rhythmatist
- Posts: 220
- Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:46 pm
Re: Advice Needed: How to Get Playing in Austin, Texas
I hope you understand that even the greatest players on the face of the planet...Vinnie and Dave...afa "fusion" goes...not much in the good old US of A. Not for (great) profit at least. Mostly Europe, Asia etc. Check their schedules on their websites...very telling.
AFA fusion in general...you won't have much of an audience even if you do get gigs with that type of thing for one. Don't get me wrong, it's about 60% of what I listen to but I stopped aspiring to even do that as a side long ago...reality set in. So, my advice...pretty much the same as what was said earlier. Learn to groove, make people dance and smile...get your time together. GC drumoffs are not conducive to learning the kinds of stuff you need for musical survival. You have to dig in and get your ass kicked but realize that it will pay huge dividends...play top 40, classic rock...hell yeah, play country! If you want a lesson in how cool total restraint can actually be get a gig with a classic country band (I'm sure Austin has a few around). It's great to have chops (I wish I did) but you'll have greater longevity in the business if you develop the tools that provide that longevity. With experience you'll find spots in almost any gig to get your fusion nut off but it takes...experience. Nothing will take the place of the big "E."
AFA fusion in general...you won't have much of an audience even if you do get gigs with that type of thing for one. Don't get me wrong, it's about 60% of what I listen to but I stopped aspiring to even do that as a side long ago...reality set in. So, my advice...pretty much the same as what was said earlier. Learn to groove, make people dance and smile...get your time together. GC drumoffs are not conducive to learning the kinds of stuff you need for musical survival. You have to dig in and get your ass kicked but realize that it will pay huge dividends...play top 40, classic rock...hell yeah, play country! If you want a lesson in how cool total restraint can actually be get a gig with a classic country band (I'm sure Austin has a few around). It's great to have chops (I wish I did) but you'll have greater longevity in the business if you develop the tools that provide that longevity. With experience you'll find spots in almost any gig to get your fusion nut off but it takes...experience. Nothing will take the place of the big "E."
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rpc
Re: Advice Needed: How to Get Playing in Austin, Texas
So it sounds like my map of the drumming universe is a little off. I think I thought that a guy could go to this or that city and say, "Hey, I'm a fusion drummer," and hook up with other fusion musicians to play at fusion clubs for fusion fans. But it sounds like fusion's too rare and unpopular for that - to the point where even Dave and Vinnie don't play it all the time.
And the second - more important, actually - mistake is the age-old idea that because a guy can play some cool "drummer" stuff that he (or she) is ready to play in a more sophisticated musical setting. With that not being the case, the logical final question is this: What should a new drummer's plan of action be? How do musicians meet each other and get started? At jam nights? I've gone to lots of those over the years, but never with the idea of meeting other musicians. I've always done it because I haven't had a drumset of my own and just wanted to physically touch drums.
I'm hesitant to try craigslist, but I'm not someone who's probably going to go down to the local jazz jam and schmooze with folks. I'd feel guilty having business cards - like I'd be being a fraud. I'm nobody in the world of live music, and it'd just be way too weird for me to try to pass myself off as some professional businessperson. I'm just a guy with some chops who really liked to play. That's all. So would it be completely foolish to be looking for a gig with players who are maybe a little more seasoned than I am? I guess the problem is that I don't know my market value as a player.
I know where I want to fit in; now I need to know where I do fit in.
And the second - more important, actually - mistake is the age-old idea that because a guy can play some cool "drummer" stuff that he (or she) is ready to play in a more sophisticated musical setting. With that not being the case, the logical final question is this: What should a new drummer's plan of action be? How do musicians meet each other and get started? At jam nights? I've gone to lots of those over the years, but never with the idea of meeting other musicians. I've always done it because I haven't had a drumset of my own and just wanted to physically touch drums.
I'm hesitant to try craigslist, but I'm not someone who's probably going to go down to the local jazz jam and schmooze with folks. I'd feel guilty having business cards - like I'd be being a fraud. I'm nobody in the world of live music, and it'd just be way too weird for me to try to pass myself off as some professional businessperson. I'm just a guy with some chops who really liked to play. That's all. So would it be completely foolish to be looking for a gig with players who are maybe a little more seasoned than I am? I guess the problem is that I don't know my market value as a player.
I know where I want to fit in; now I need to know where I do fit in.
Re: Advice Needed: How to Get Playing in Austin, Texas
Trust me, if you go about in Austin telling guys that you're a "fusion drummer", all you're going to get are some blank stares, and little to no phone calls. People tie fusion in with lots of chops, lotes of notes, and lots of wanking, which is NOT what's going to get you a gig.
To be honest, if you're trying to get gigs to play some "cool drummer stuff in a more sophisticated musical setting," then you should really just stick to the practice room. That is the completely incorrect attitude to have about getting work, as your job is to lay down the groove, keep the time solid, back up the singer, play for the song, and play for the music (not for yourself) and play what the music requires. Less is more.
If you're really wanting to get playing in anytown, hanging out a bit/meeting players, and setting up some jams from Craigs List will be the best way to go.
To be honest, if you're trying to get gigs to play some "cool drummer stuff in a more sophisticated musical setting," then you should really just stick to the practice room. That is the completely incorrect attitude to have about getting work, as your job is to lay down the groove, keep the time solid, back up the singer, play for the song, and play for the music (not for yourself) and play what the music requires. Less is more.
If you're really wanting to get playing in anytown, hanging out a bit/meeting players, and setting up some jams from Craigs List will be the best way to go.
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