I need your input

drummerjeff
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 10:09 pm

I need your input

Postby drummerjeff » Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:48 pm

alright, I have asked this before and you guys were awesome.. so I will ask once again... I need your input..
I want to document my theory of learning the drums..
I am not selling anything, so I don't think this counts as spam.. but I need your input
First thing.... I am no good on camera... I'm great in person... not so good on camera
But my ideas are right.. I spent a ton of my life thinking about these ideas... so I want to share them
I just need your help to tell me where I don't make any sense
here are the videos in order
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4Kd0VPFHkM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdU-TV_mdzM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaefPA7pKKg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1i0w2E-QhbM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOhGccK4UX4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfQicD3W1NQ
By the way... there is nothing at the site right now... eventually I will have downlaods there of music to play along to.. but now there is nothing
Jim Richman
Posts: 474
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 8:29 pm

Re: I need your input

Postby Jim Richman » Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:31 pm

Huh?
Keith Mansfield rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Odd-Arne Oseberg
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Location: The physical plane.
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Re: I need your input

Postby Odd-Arne Oseberg » Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:25 am

huh? +1
Gaddabout
Posts: 499
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 8:21 pm

Re: I need your input

Postby Gaddabout » Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:42 am

Jeff,

I've watched a few and I see a lot of conceit in all of this. You seem like you have a lot of facility, but so what? I don't see much about making music or, really, learning how to play drums. I see a lot of, "I've been locked away in my shed for years and these are the maniacal ramblings of a man who has no room for charity or input from the tradition of the instrument." Some of your pointers, such as totally writing off counting, fly in the face of pretty much every other respected teacher and player of the instrument. I'm all for challenging convention, but all you offer is "Jeff says so."

I suspect inside that wild brain of yours there is considerable information you have to offer, but ... this is not it, in my opinion. Perhaps this is meant for the post-Berklee crowd? How would they receive it? As a general information process, I think what you offer in these videos is dangerous and not helpful.

I'm not here to slam on you, but you did ask, and we are all about speaking the truth around here.
“Let's try some of my songs.” Dave Grohl, top sign drummer will be fired.
drummerjeff
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 10:09 pm

Re: I need your input

Postby drummerjeff » Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:23 am

Gaddabout wrote:Jeff,

I've watched a few and I see a lot of conceit in all of this. You seem like you have a lot of facility, but so what? I don't see much about making music or, really, learning how to play drums. I see a lot of, "I've been locked away in my shed for years and these are the maniacal ramblings of a man who has no room for charity or input from the tradition of the instrument." Some of your pointers, such as totally writing off counting, fly in the face of pretty much every other respected teacher and player of the instrument. I'm all for challenging convention, but all you offer is "Jeff says so."

I suspect inside that wild brain of yours there is considerable information you have to offer, but ... this is not it, in my opinion. Perhaps this is meant for the post-Berklee crowd? How would they receive it? As a general information process, I think what you offer in these videos is dangerous and not helpful.

I'm not here to slam on you, but you did ask, and we are all about speaking the truth around here.


No this is perfect, I am not looking for good feedback. I need to know what people don't like or even hate. Ive wrote about this before and gotten good comments ( http://www.jefflemke.com/?page_id=30 ) but maybe I have to rethink how
I explain myself.
My intended audience is anyone who wants to get better and achieve the freedom to play their ideas freely on the drums.. also, these are just the first of many.. but now I am going to re-look at how those are made
Thanks for your time
Frank Sanchez
Posts: 80
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 12:04 pm

Re: I need your input

Postby Frank Sanchez » Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:11 am

I echo the sentiments given thus far. The title of your vids might better be termed "Concepts" or "Drum Philosophy" as there is very little that a person can take away and actually practice, as with a lesson. There are certainly things that you said that ring true, but undercutting the very foundation of how most have learned is shortsighted. I'd throw something out like this: Here's how you count an exercise and hears how you practice something that you have heard. That would be helpful in getting your points across.

Good luck with however you use all of the constructive criticism. Hopefully, you'll be able to synthesize it for your viewer's benefit.
chris perra
Posts: 421
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:00 pm

Re: I need your input

Postby chris perra » Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:26 am

I watched your vids.. They might be better described as "Abstract concepts on playing drums for advanced players".

I sort of get your points.. for the most part you want the student to try and get to the point where you aren't thinking about anything while playing.
Trying to reach a nirvana of expression without any constricts of "The Grid" ect..

I think that's a great goal to achieve... However..How you would get there is completely different than how I would.
The content in my opinion is horrific advice to give or even mention to a beginner..

Stating counting is evil is quite odd.. as It's to me the most useful tool we have to organize and communicate what everybody is supposed to do without having to individually teach everyone how to do it one by one. Plus hoping they can remember it..

Counting builds an internal clock that is best externalized with your voice as that's the thing almost all of us have the most control over in a direct mind to body connection.

Also regarding the vid on playing upbeat sixteenths too fast.... How do you know if they are 8ths or upbeat 16ths if you don't use counting as a reference..
Or an anchor/crutch on the 1/4's like in your crutch video..

I get that your goal is to transcend thinking while playing or not relying on physical habits like always playing 1/4's on the kick while playing something with your hands.. But you can't get past that without those fundamentals to be engrained first..

As a deliberate intentional shake up of how to approach playing drums I can respect the content... But only for drummers who have their shit together first...
drummerjeff
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 10:09 pm

Re: I need your input

Postby drummerjeff » Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:29 pm

chris perra wrote:I watched your vids.. They might be better described as "Abstract concepts on playing drums for advanced players".

I sort of get your points.. for the most part you want the student to try and get to the point where you aren't thinking about anything while playing.
Trying to reach a nirvana of expression without any constricts of "The Grid" ect..

I think that's a great goal to achieve... However..How you would get there is completely different than how I would.
The content in my opinion is horrific advice to give or even mention to a beginner..

Stating counting is evil is quite odd.. as It's to me the most useful tool we have to organize and communicate what everybody is supposed to do without having to individually teach everyone how to do it one by one. Plus hoping they can remember it..

Counting builds an internal clock that is best externalized with your voice as that's the thing almost all of us have the most control over in a direct mind to body connection.

Also regarding the vid on playing upbeat sixteenths too fast.... How do you know if they are 8ths or upbeat 16ths if you don't use counting as a reference..
Or an anchor/crutch on the 1/4's like in your crutch video..

I get that your goal is to transcend thinking while playing or not relying on physical habits like always playing 1/4's on the kick while playing something with your hands.. But you can't get past that without those fundamentals to be engrained first..

As a deliberate intentional shake up of how to approach playing drums I can respect the content... But only for drummers who have their shit together first...



Thanks Chris, alot of really good points, and thanks to everyone else for their time and comments.. this is giving a ton of good ideas on where I didn't make myself clear and how to better explain my ideas... keep them coming
Gaddabout
Posts: 499
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 8:21 pm

Re: I need your input

Postby Gaddabout » Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:33 pm

I would consider looking in konnakol as a counting system. It's high math and extremely efficient. Everyone I know who's done it ... it has raised their whole game. Some of the best musicians in the world rely on it.
“Let's try some of my songs.” Dave Grohl, top sign drummer will be fired.
drummerjeff
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 10:09 pm

Re: I need your input

Postby drummerjeff » Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:55 pm

Gaddabout wrote:I would consider looking in konnakol as a counting system. It's high math and extremely efficient. Everyone I know who's done it ... it has raised their whole game. Some of the best musicians in the world rely on it.

I studied that stuff a ton when I was in college and alot of my concepts come from indian traditions of learning...konnakol is not counting.. it is singing rhythms.. which is extremely useful. Counting is not singing a rhythm, it's laying down a grid for you to play notes upon.. I am going to re-make all of my videos because I am seeing where I made mistakes in explaining what I meant

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