Grip and Fulcrum

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Lucas Ives
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Re: Grip and Fulcrum

Postby Lucas Ives » Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:47 pm

Heh, I hear you. I've definitely had some success in the past with the regimens you describe ... but I've also found it's tough to articulate what my dominant hand is doing in a way for me to make adjustments to my non-dominant hand to match it (if that makes any sense). My hunch is this is related to the fact that I never thought about my dominant hand, it just sort of worked itself out.

When I take a step back, though, the focus I've been giving the issue in the last 2 weeks has definitely been helping. It's just slow going .. my original post was just an attempt to take a poll of what folks consider to be the most important points of focus when really drilling down on grip.

.. as to your second point, I studied Moeller fairly extensively with Dave Weckl years ago in lessons and then later more informally out on the road with him. That motion and the process of learning it always made sense to me, and my Moeller-accented singles are actually pretty strong. It's the wrist singles and singles <-> doubles that aren't quite where I want them to be.

Anyway, thanks for the advice -- it's a process, for sure.
Gaddabout
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Re: Grip and Fulcrum

Postby Gaddabout » Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:08 am

Make sure you don't spend 20 years obsessing over grip and technique and ignore the reality it's better to pick the ones you understand and push on through with time in the shed. I hit multi-year plateaus chasing this stuff. I probably stopped just short of really hitting major strides because I was more worried about trying some new way to attack it.
“Let's try some of my songs.” Dave Grohl, top sign drummer will be fired.
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Tom Reschke
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Re: Grip and Fulcrum

Postby Tom Reschke » Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:42 am

Trying to get our weaker hand up to par with our dominant hand is something that almost all of us struggle and strive to achieve. But, I don't think that it is entirely necessary for playing drumset. If you think about other instruments, string, horn, woodwind, and even piano, each hand has its own job. They work together, but in different capacities. Aside from playing a singular instrument such as rudimental or drum corps snare and even tenors (yes, tenors are 4 or 5 instruments, but still demand an amount of uniformity), or orchestral percussion, there isn't REALLY a reason for us drumset players to need both of our hands to be equally adept. Much like a guitar player strumming with his right and fretting with his left (or vice versa), our two hands have different jobs. Our dominant hand usually is responsible for the ride and hi hat, and our other hand handles the snare. Yes, there are fills an two handed hi hat stuff, but for the most part, your hands are responsible for different actions. It's the reason traditional grip still exists on the drumset (and because it looks totally sweet). It isn't imperative for both hands to be equal to able to execute musical ideas on the kit because we're playing multiple instruments all with different sound characteristics and varied rebound give and take. Unless you want to have an ambidextrous setup or win DCI solo snare competitions, I wouldn't stress over an inequality in your hands. There's a sort of yin an yang thing happening, and i think that's totally fine. That being said...
Set up lefty, or practice playing open handed. Use a mirror, sure, but you don't REALLY need to. Just look down at your hands and play sticking exercises very slow. Make your left look like your right, if it even can. Start doing things left handed like brushing your teeth (that's a fun one). Engage your weaker hand in everyday activities that you'd normally do with the main guy. And have a good time... all the time.
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chris perra
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Re: Grip and Fulcrum

Postby chris perra » Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:19 am

I try to keep it simple.. Like watching stick tip height and wrist field of motion/pivot of the stick in the fulcrum..

Differences in evenness and power come from those things not being the same.. You may not have to have the exact same musculature to achieve this but the stick tip height and freedom of motion/fulcrum pivot point have to be the same to be even..
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Odd-Arne Oseberg
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Re: Grip and Fulcrum

Postby Odd-Arne Oseberg » Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:17 am

Only time I've met a challenge in regards to this is when I have to do a double stroke roll Close to my Maximum speed and do long really loud crescendo. I had that issue yesterday, but I guess I could have solved it better with a single stroke roll instead.
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Kurtis
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Re: Grip and Fulcrum

Postby Kurtis » Thu Feb 06, 2014 6:21 am

Lucus are you in a band(s)? For years I was in an old school R&B band and played open handed. At rehearsals and gigs. Forced my left hand to get stronger. Worked for me. I prefer to play trad tho. Lots of 16th note grooves with the left hand on lots of tunes. If I wanted to add feel I would use my right hand on the hats. It will take many years to get your left hand where you want it. Don't bother with the pad! Play the kit and use the open hand deal. Bring the ride or add a ride to the left part of your kit. Having the left hand do all the work builds stamina and better grip. Heck you had the Wek give you very useful insight. That's super neato.
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Rhythmatist
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Re: Grip and Fulcrum

Postby Rhythmatist » Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:43 pm

I'm a strictly trad player but I find that when I need to break things down analytically I like to go back and revisit the Jojo Mayer vid. Understanding the physiology and physics involved really help to put it in perspective. I usually go back every couple months when I feel I'm lapsing into bad habits and work on basic strokes in Gladstone and Moeller using a variety of hand positions (I hate the word grip). But like Gaddabout said...don't obsess over it.
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bclarkio
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Re: Grip and Fulcrum

Postby bclarkio » Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:23 am

One thing that has worked for me is both hands in unison.

Otherwise, I watch helplessly while the left hand tries to do what the right's doing.

Another thing is using my arm to determine grip.

The stroke starts from the shoulder, to elbow, then wrist, using as natural and relaxed motion as possible.

Then, the hand and fingers make adjustments regarding sound, speed, volume, etc.

Grip and fulcrum are fluid.
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gretsch-o-rama
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Re: Grip and Fulcrum

Postby gretsch-o-rama » Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:37 pm

Hey- If I had to guess what the deal was, I'd say that your fingers are active in controlling the stick in your dominant hand and your weaker is more of a wrist stroke. Of course, I don't know because I've never seen you play(although I had the opportunity one time). I would say the solution is to get your weak hand fingers to wake up. In match that should be pretty easy. Of course, you'd be well advised to hit things very squarely(sticks flat to your playing surfaces) and then everything's all good.
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