Keith Moon and black dots

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langmick
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Re: Keith Moon and black dots

Postby langmick » Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:48 pm

Tony and Moon were similar in how they played against the lead instrument, including vocals.

That cold be why Tony dug Moon.

But, imagine the early 70s. No internet, and Moon was the man on FM radio.

He took The Beatles, Traffic and all that and pummeled it into submission and played good drums.

Tony into Keith Moon makes perfect sense.
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gretsch-o-rama
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Re: Keith Moon and black dots

Postby gretsch-o-rama » Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:19 pm

langmick wrote:I am totally interested in why Tony would respect Keith Moon's playing. It might explain to me why listening to Quadrophenia kills me so much, right in the brain.




A lot of thoughts watching that...his trad hand is a mystery to me...I need to spend more time dissecting what he's doing technique wise...Looks like he was playing A's not K's...and other weird random thoughts...
"Ding ding da ding." Apollo teaching Rocky how to Jazz.
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nomsgmusic
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Re: Keith Moon and black dots

Postby nomsgmusic » Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:15 pm

Moon has always mystified, intrigued, and even pissed me off. I grew up LOVING "Who Are You," but I never got a chance to actually see Moon play (pre youtube, he died the year I began playing drums, and there wasn't much of Moon on MTV.) But after I got a chance to see him play (on videotape,) it was like... "How (and why the HELL) does THAT work???" (That's where the being "pissed off" comes in.) He really struck a nerve. He was so unconventional, so spontaneous, and it looks so haphazard, but what a groove!

I got a video recording of the Live in Texas 1975, and have watched it incessantly in the last 30 or so years. I have since augmented that with The Isle of Wight DVD from 1970 and others. Moon always sort of reminds me of a "rock version" of an avant-garde jazz drummer. Sort of a rock version of Andrew Cyrille, Milford Graves, Paul Motian, or Rashied Ali. Maybe that's what Tony heard and dug, who knows? (Tony also made comments about digging the MC5 as well.)

After seeing Moon play, I actually wasn't sure if I hated Moon's playing or LOVED it. But my confirmation of Moon's genius was his playing on "Beck's Bolero," what an powerful part he came up with on that!

And how Moon and Entwistle worked together to create such a huge groove with both of them playing SO much (and never getting in each other's way) is truly beyond. It's just mind boggling, but man did it ever work! And how Pete was able to find room in there for his wonderful rhythm playing is truly amazing.

I read Townshend's autobiography hoping to learn more about Moon, but there wasn't much there. When I interviewed Simon, I asked him if he could "explain" Moon to me, and he just shook his head and laughed in complete reverence. Amazingly, Zach seems to have really "copped" the chaos of the "Moon Thing" vey well. I always admired Simon for staying clear of that, and just being himself within the music. I (and it seems like I am very alone in this,) LOVED Simon's playing with The Who.

The Who are an enigma to me. Throughout rock history, I've never heard any other band that sounds remotely like them. There are bands that (at times) sound Zeppelin-ish, Beatles-ish, Sabbath-ish, Stones-ish, Floyd-ish, but from what I can remember, I've never heard a band and thought, "They sound sort of like The Who." You could also say the same about Moon. ENIGMA! You can sort of trace the lineage when you hear most drummers, but tell me who (or where) Moon was coming from? Or who sounds like they have been STRONGLY influenced by him. The closest that I ever heard was older Phil Collins (whom I also LOVE!!!)

Here's a cool little "Moon thing." Listen closely to "My Generation." It's actually a VERY fast shuffle, and Moon's RH clearly can't keep up. So he sort of abandons ship, and straightens it out and bashes through it, but occasionally he tries to get the shuffle back (to no avail.) BUT IT WORKS!!!!! Amazing....

Regarding Tony and Moon, sorry, I got nuthin'.... Wish I would have asked Tony about that.
But Moon...
DAMN!!!!!

MSG
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langmick
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Re: Keith Moon and black dots

Postby langmick » Sun Apr 20, 2014 6:07 am



Right on the edge, but with power and balls.



Seems to me the idea of a rock band going on stage and just playing for the experience of playing is gone from popular circles. Jam bands are one thing, but not the same.
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Paul Marangoni
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Re: Keith Moon and black dots

Postby Paul Marangoni » Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:12 am

nomsgmusic wrote:Moon always sort of reminds me of a "rock version" of an avant-garde jazz drummer. Sort of a rock version of Andrew Cyrille, Milford Graves, Paul Motian, or Rashied Ali.


That's a very good analogy Mark.

Moon was a big reason I started playing drums, and probably one of my main early influences, along with Ginger Baker and a bunch of other pop/rock drummers. It was a sad day when he passed away, because he was so young. It also meant I'd never see him perform live. Moon and Bonham were two of my favorite drummers I never got to see live.

When I first heard Live at Leeds, it floored me the same way Tony Williams floored me on the early Miles live stuff. A complete masterpiece of drumming (and not just the playing, his SOUND too).

If you're not a big Moon fan, pick up Live at Leeds, Who's Next?, and Quadrophenia. Brilliant stuff.
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nomsgmusic
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Re: Keith Moon and black dots

Postby nomsgmusic » Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:17 am

I can't necessarily say that Moon was a big drumming influence, because I couldn't wrap my mind around what the hell he was doing. But that fact alone was sort of a "musical (maybe conceptual) influence." But I STILL don't understand how a constant stream of seemingly "reckless" notes can produce such a great groove. And as a rhythm section, those three, WHEW! How that worked is STILL beyond me! The Who's music was a BIG influence though.

Yes, I agree on "Who's Next," but ironically (and I know I'm in a small club here) "Live At Leeds" never really spoke to me. I still give it a month of listening every few years hoping that it will (finally) click to me; But nothing yet. I'll keep trying though! Maybe next time I'll give "Quadrophenia" a more serious listen instead of "Live at Leeds."

You know after posting my last post, I realized that (to me) the avant garde drummer that Moon reminds me most of, is Sunny Murray. A few other things occurred to me as well... Have you ever seen a Keith Moon complete tune transcription? Not me. (Talk about an exercise in futility.) How about this... Can you think of (or play) a RECOGNIZABLE "Keith Moon Lick?" The guy just never seemed to repeat himself.

Yeah, as a kid (and still today,) I was waaay into Bonham and Mitch Mitchell (Weren't we all? That seems to go without saying.) But early on, the "rock" guy that REALLY spoke to me, was Richie Hayward, to me he had it ALL! And for me, the rest (as they say) is history!

MSG
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Paul Marangoni
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Re: Keith Moon and black dots

Postby Paul Marangoni » Sun Apr 20, 2014 1:51 pm

I didn't get into Mitch Mitchell, simply because I didn't dig his sound. I found Hendrix's records to be very poor examples of recording engineering (guess I was an audiophile snob or something). I almost forgot about The Who's Tommy. The drums sound great on there, and you can really hear the "Premier" drum sound especially.

Another great example of Moon's uniqueness is the HIT song "I Can See For Miles", where he's playing a 16th note roll on the snare drum almost all the way through each chorus. On "Live At Leeds", the jam medley on Young Man Blues is beautiful. I love the sound of his drums - raw and organic.
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gretsch-o-rama
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Re: Keith Moon and black dots

Postby gretsch-o-rama » Sun Apr 20, 2014 2:27 pm

nomsgmusic wrote:
The Who are an enigma to me. Throughout rock history, I've never heard any other band that sounds remotely like them. There are bands that (at times) sound Zeppelin-ish, Beatles-ish, Sabbath-ish, Stones-ish, Floyd-ish, but from what I can remember, I've never heard a band and thought, "They sound sort of like The Who." You could also say the same about Moon. ENIGMA! You can sort of trace the lineage when you hear most drummers, but tell me who (or where) Moon was coming from? Or who sounds like they have been STRONGLY influenced by him. The closest that I ever heard was older Phil Collins (whom I also LOVE!!!)


MSG


As far as what I'm familiar with, Pearl Jam was the band that ever came the closest to sounding like The Who. And the drummer, IMO, is Tony that came closest to the reckless abandon of Moon...although I have to say I'll have to listen to Moon more to understand that better...

After seeing Moon play, I actually wasn't sure if I hated Moon's playing or LOVED it. But my confirmation of Moon's genius was his playing on "Beck's Bolero," what an powerful part he came up with on that!



I heard that Jimmy Page wrote Beck's Bolero for Beck although I've never heard the original version...I've definitely heard Beck talk very highly of Moon though...

And I can respect Moon's madness/insanity a bit....and maybe a bit more if I didn't feel it was fueled by drugs and alcohol mostly...which is a shame, IMO. He lacked no sense of energy, however, and I think that's what musicians look for somewhat...Happy Easter everyone!
"Ding ding da ding." Apollo teaching Rocky how to Jazz.
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Christopher
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Re: Keith Moon and black dots

Postby Christopher » Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:26 pm

One of the best examples of Moon's out there, fill filled, yet still grooving songs is The Real Me.

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langmick
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Re: Keith Moon and black dots

Postby langmick » Mon Apr 21, 2014 3:24 am

http://www.ijamming.net/Moon/JeffBeck.html

You hear him scream, and at the same moment he screams, he knocks the microphone off the stand and then he disappears

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