Shure Beta 52a + Beta 91a for kick micing

[Rhythmatist]

Anyone use this combination of kick mics...91a inside for attack with a 52a in the port for bottom? I've heard some sound techs swear by it. One sound company I worked with this summer used these on my kick (22x17 yammy oak custom)...of course being behind the kit I couldn't hear the result but folks out front raved about it. I'm looking into possibly using the combo for recording. Any thoughts?

[Paul Marangoni]

My personal preference is as few mics as possible. If you end up trying this, let us know (and hear) how it works out.

[Julián Fernández]

[Paul Marangoni]

After watching that video, I think your idea of a Beta91 inside with the 52 outside just may work quite well.

[Julián Fernández]

You could download the audio and do some experimenting on your DAW!

[bensdrums]

I use the Beta 91A inside three of my bass drums (a DW 18", Slingerland 20", and a Gretsch 22") with the Kelly SHU Flatz (http://www.kellyshu.com/kelly_shu_flatz.html) and May Non Drill Vent Adapter. Gretsch 22" is ported on the front head but the other two aren't. Makes for a plug and play bass drum.

When I run an exterior mic in conjunction, with any of the three drums, I use either the Beta 52 as you've described or the Sennheiser 602. I prefer the Beta 52 usually, but the 602 does a great job too. On recordings, it's nice to be able to play around with the combination in post... pretty easy to hit a broad spectrum of punch and tone depending on what you want. The only thing I haven't tried is using the Yamaha Sub Kick with the 91A, which would also probably sound pretty nice, but I wonder whether the large diaphragm on the Sub Kick can really capture tone as well as the 52 or 602. For me, the 91A gives me the punch that I want at the root of the sound, and the 52 or 602 helps round out the tone.

[Matus]

It depends on what you're going for sound-wise. It's very convenient for a sound engineer to have the BD attack on an isolated track from the body so he can play with both at will and that combination works well.
That being said, there are factors to observe here. First, you might not want that kind of attack at all. The 91 works wonders for the sharp attack you'd associate with rock, metal or even pop. Modern sound, so to speak. So if you're going for the Weckl, Phillips, Smith approach, it's not really something to invest on.
And then there's the factor that you should favor that sound from the start, before going into miking. Plastic beaters are always an option for having a great attack with no need for extra mics, eq, compression, etc.
My approach is simple: empty shell, Powersonic head, medium-low tension, falams and plastic beaters. From there, it's up to the engineer, but if you put an AKG D112 right on the front head hole, the sound is already great for most situations. For heavier stuff our sound man puts a 91 inside and actually plays with a tiny bit of eq and compression (none for the external mic).
To sum it all up: great combination (I like the AKG better, but that's me), but I'd contemplate more options first, just to make it simpler for external engineers to consistently have "your" BD sound.

[Rhythmatist]

Thanks for the replies! The guy doing my recording is looking for something and I'm not sure what it is he's looking for. We've done a bunch of different things, some have worked out nicely and others just not so hot (micing the batter head from the outside...not a good choice). I think he's trying to find something that will work no matter what. I've heard some of the other recordings he's done and they don't have the same...balls I guess would be the best term. I can't make him realize that kick drums are probably the most difficult to record and the variables are so endless, starting with the head choices, tuning and muffling...but he's been on this "quest" for a couple decades. He's got some of the best ears I've run across in this business so I know there's something he hears in his head. It will be one of those Ah-ha moments when it happens. I'm curious about the 52/91 combo because that might be what's in his head...but not the sharp attack thing...I'm thinking about how the 91 can be tailored to offer more definition without getting "clicky" and adding that to the tone of the 52. I heard Dennis Chambers in a clinic a long time ago using that combination and it piqued my interest back then since the tone and definition were so nicely proportioned.

He had me come in recently to play a tune I wrote that will be on his next release...I was hearing my Gretsch jazz kit in my head since the bass player wasand that's what I brought. He had never worked with an 18 with both heads before and he was almost losing it. But after he experimented with some mics, placement and angles we ended up getting a really great sound (we ended up with a 52 and an RE20...52 on the right side where a port would be and the RE 20 left opposite). It hasn't been mixed yet but we listened to each separately and in tandem...all are unique, of course and it will be interesting to see what he comes up with in the final mix.

[Matus]

Well, you can pretty much tailor the 91 to anything you want. Use felt beaters and then use subtractive EQ to soften the attack if you need it. The cool thing is you can get whatever kind of body you want and whatever kind of attack and mix them.
But, then again, it's difficult to say without knowing what he's going for.

[Rhythmatist]

Well, you can pretty much tailor the 91 to anything you want. Use felt beaters and then use subtractive EQ to soften the attack if you need it. The cool thing is you can get whatever kind of body you want and whatever kind of attack and mix them.
But, then again, it's difficult to say without knowing what he's going for.

Ha, I know, right? I can't get him to even give me an example of a reference recording. For all I know we could be hearing the same thing in our heads and when we hear it the ground will quake and the heavens will open!!!

I was doing some research and I ran across a sound forum post where an engineer was talking about using the 91 inside, 52 in the port and an RE20 off center opposite the port...then experimenting with eq and listening to the various combinations at various levels. He also mentions swapping out a D112 for the 52. Hey, as long as he doesn't charge me time farting around looking for the Holy Grail of kick micing techniques I'm good. Otherwise I go with something that simply sounds right.