Working On My Swing Thing

[Juan Expósito]

Sure Ben, that type of feedback-attitude is what make us better.

[sjj123]

This is a really good thread. It is what this forum should be about......I'm like Odd-A...not as accomplished even tho' I've played for 30 years. Great suggestions, really helpful

nice job man.

[chris perra]

I'm no jazz expert by any stretch.. Sound like you can play no problem. It's not going to be much work for you to get to where you want to go. The first thing that jumped out to me is that the song is a bit fast for you. Not physically, but hearing and pocket wise.

Learning the song like suggested previously would be the biggest thing. Alot of the time for me if I'm playing along with a track I don't really know I'll automatically throw on lick, pattern or fill that I have down in other situations but they don't quite fit due to speed or the phrasing of the new tune.

Maybe record a take of just basic time really focusing on locking in with the piano and bass.. no fluff etc. Just shots. Try 2 or three different aproaches to the piano comping but only playing basic time. Then build it from there.

[janne jansson]

Sounds like you listen more to more fusion drummers playing jazz than "jazz drummers" doing it...
Have you done your history work and listen to jazz drummers from way back?
Other than that sounds fine..

Janne

[Odd-Arne Oseberg]

My talk is a bit ahead of my own actual game here, not speaking as a drummer, but a musician who grew up in a jazz environment.

Just before I moved home I went to a jazz school and took some drum lessons. We talked a little technique and stuff, but when we got down to playing we always started with the same thing, working on the ride cymbal and tying everything else into that.

This is sort of the thing you never get done with. It's not a beginner thing, it's every-thing. First and foremost, you're a time player. I'd just sit down sometimes with music, play-a-longs or a metronome, but also without anything.

You can just play quarters and really get into it, then slowly start to experiment adding the up beats on 2 and 4. There are different tastes regaring this, but many drummers I know prefer to accent and also push on 2 and go softer on 4. We're talking a very different dynamic and sensibility here to any modern fusion thing. I've heard Jim Blackley is a very sort of "let the hi-hat handle the back beats" sort of guy.

Antonio Sanchez tells a funny story on his DVD, but it went much deeper than that. I think he literarly sat down and played only a ride cymbal for a long time. Then when you start filling in stuff listen to every neuance of timing. It's not just time though, it's tone, touch and dynamics.

These are not technical basic facility and chops things. You got plenty of that.

There are offcourse many ways to play. There's current Erskoman and then there's Buddy driving his big band. Two extremes. Tony sure put some power in there. It's all his fault really. All the cats at those Buddy tribute shows do a good job and they're fantastic drummers in their own environment. Not sure they'd get hired by a traditional jazz band, though.

We don't have to follow tradition as artists, but it's good to know and learn from and in most situations there's a certain sensibility required.

To a certain extent I guess I'm also talking a bit about getting into the music and take your time. Not go on auto pilot. Do't let go of the cool stuff you do, but maybe simply, get to the core and slowly build back up. You'll still have all your cool licks, but now even more.

If you really wanna play jazz in the tradition it's probably a good idea to get into the history of all the different styles starting from the beginning.

[bensdrums]

Thanks.

In response to a few things here:

I'm definitely aware the ride cymbal is the big daddy speaking voice in jazz drumset and becoming a master with it is a lifelong pursuit.

This wasn't a video representative of something I took apart and worked on, dissected, and figured out exactly what to do with in order to showcase my complete mastery of something. I'm not making an adderall induced cover of Michael Jackson's PYT for mass consumption. This was a case where I had just gotten the Erskine app, heard that tune (once or twice), liked what I heard, threw some cameras up, and recorded my initial response to it.

Why do that? Because I was seeking feedback on my instinctual response to the music, as if I were sitting in with a band and playing a tune for the first time. Is there really any other way to break into playing jazz? You're going to have to sit in and prove your shit at some point, and you simply can't know every tune in the Real Book, Colorado Book, Jazz Fake Book, etc. You're going to get things thrown at you that you will not know, and you'll have to listen for form, rhythmic patterns, set up figures, etc. and go with your instincts, skills, and the concepts you have. I wanted feedback on my baseline or threshold abilities in those arenas.

As father of two young boys, husband, active duty military member (15 yrs), full time college student, and (lastly for now but hopefully later on further up that list) freelance drummer; I can't go to a music school and learn these things directly, which is what I would have preferred had I made different choices earlier in life (not that I regret any of them). Seeking conceptual feedback on my instinctual response to this tune was the intent... to get an idea of things I need to get together to help me further get my "swing thing" or "jazz thing" together. Lucas, Jim, Deep Fried, Julian et al all pointed out some very helpful things: a tendency to 'cadence on the downbeat', incongruent phrasing with the melody and rhythm section, driving the quarter note vs. dancing around it, and yep, I can sure hear those things, and I'm also intuitive enough to develop my own exercises to work on pacing, phrasing, three voice comping, etc. in response to what's been pointed out. That's why I find the feedback so valuable. The mix feedback was good also.

From my perspective, a lot of my work needs to be done on listening. Sure, there are technical issues here that I'll need to address (three voice comping and the 'broad three' phrasing Lucas referred to, amongst other things) and I have the resources to do so and am actively pursuing it. But I really got the most out of the feedback by taking what these guys heard and listening for it myself in playback. There it all was. The dudes had great points. And it told me things about how I need to listen to the music and how to respond in context. That's what I was looking for.

When I'm ready and feel I've made discernible progress, I'll come back and post an updated version.

Thanks again everybody for all of the constructive criticism and honest feedback!