The WHY?!? snare thread.

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Paul Marangoni
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Re: The WHY?!? snare thread.

Postby Paul Marangoni » Tue Oct 13, 2015 5:28 pm

Julián Fernández wrote:https://youtu.be/8BAYa0mOIrA?t=261


Hahaha! Classic! Nice work.
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Re: The WHY?!? snare thread.

Postby nomsgmusic » Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:10 pm

Interesting take on the classic SD question.
WHY??
I like it the different slant!

I am NOT a gear head, but I have many snares. So I don't write a ridiculously long post, I'll do this... Here is a current picture of my SD shelf (minus two.) Below I'll list all the snares, and you can ask me why I like any of them.

I can tell you that I really don't get a new snare unless it fills a need (sound) that I don't already have. And I tend to take this viewpoint of snares.

I like to find where a snare "likes to live" (tuning, heads, wires, rims, etc...) and keep it there (basically.) When I want another snare sound, I pick another drum, instead of going down a possible wormhole of trying to get a snare sound "differently." That can often waste my time (and others) which is bad business (IMHO.) I keep the tweaking for the year or so after I get the drum. THAT is the time that I get to know the drum, and try to find where it sounds best (regarding the above components) then I tend to keep it there until the heads needs changing. I learned this approach from watching Steve Jordan work, and time spent with (and learning from) drum tech Artie Smith. It works for them, and it works for me.

I keep a bunch of rims (cob, maple, DC, single and double flange, and triple flange of a few different thicknesses,) heads, and different type of snare wires to experiment with.

Image

The snares that aren't in the picture are an Ocheltree 5.5 Phantom, and a cheap Tama Steel snare 5x10 (I think.) They were on a gig (sorry!)
The pictured snares are all 14's unless noted.

Top row: 6.5 Yamaha Brass, 4.5 Yamaha Erskine, 4.5 Custom Birch, 4.5 Solid Cherry Longo, 5.5 1980's Yamaha Steel, 8" Eames Naturaltone, 7x13 Brady Jarrah Stave, 7x12 Sleishman-ADM Jarrah Stave, 6.5x13 Yamaha Musashi Oak, 5.5x12 Musashi Oak, 12" and 10" Yamaha Stage Custom Birch (mountable.)

Second Row: 6" Longo solid Walnut, 6.5 Ludwig Hammered Bronze, 7" N&C Solid Maple, 5" 1920's two piece NOB shell Ludwig Black Beauty, 6.5 Eames Master Model Birch, 4.5 Brady Jarrah Ply, 6.5 Slingerland 1920's Professional NOB, 4.5 N&C Cast Aluminum, 8" Yamaha Recording Custom, 5" Hitmaker NOB (with wood hoops,) 5" Ludwig 60's Acrolite Plain shell, 6.5 Remo Gold Crown.

Bottom Row: 6.5 Slingerland 1970's COB, 6" Gretsch Custom w/ wood hoops, 4" Ludwig Downbeat, 8" Tempus Fiberglass, 4x15 1920's two piece NOB 6 lug, 5.5 DW Maple Mahogany, 8x15 1950's WFL, 6.5 Pearl Maple Orchestral triple strainer, 5.5 Gretsch COB 4160, 6.5x15 Birch Ludwig, 6x12 Tama Steel.

On floor: 6.5 UNIX Walnut Stave, 6.5 Gretsch wood, 5" 1960's Supraphonic.

Nice topic!
I will happily answer why I like and own any of these drums, and why I chose them over similar drums.
MSG
[url][/url]bluejayrecords.com/drumatic
[url][/url]vicfirth.com/artists/mark_griffith.html
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Re: The WHY?!? snare thread.

Postby Odd-Arne Oseberg » Wed Oct 14, 2015 5:32 am

It's whatever works.

I can completely see how a certain type of player in varied situations with employers that have certain expectations would like to have all the options. One snare for one thing is sort of like different guitars for different tunings, one for slide and so on...

Some need less some need more.

The small kit thing too, apart from the obvious musical reasons, and the more with less that grew out of it, has probably a lot to do with living in cities, getting it all into a bus or taxi and sometimes not wanting the hassle for what the gig is, pays or whatever.

Jojo has his kit, Simon has his and to me a 6-piece just the perfect do it all, sort of both a high tuned and low tuned 5-piece combo all in one. It's the 5-string bass of the drummerworld.
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Re: The WHY?!? snare thread.

Postby Rene » Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:43 pm

Holy snare drum collection Mark. I really like gear and especially snare drums. But I'm no pro, just an enthusiastic hobbyist. So I try to control my self not buying to much gear. I bought and selled some snare drums over time. By the way I started playing drums at 19 and I'm 42 now.

Currently I own 6 snares. The most precious one is the Koko stave snare, which you can see on the picture Further more a Worldmax black beauty imitation and a Worldmax Walnut stave snare, two 13" snare and Drumcraft Maple snare.


Image

Regarding the Koko snare. The stave shell (African mahogany) was built by Koko van Dordrecht. I don't know if there are any DIYO drum builders on board., but if you google on "Koko Jig", you'll find out that this guy revolutionized drum making and is a "legend" among drum builders.

The shell is at the same level of quality as a Brady and such. Koko had his own shop but ended his business and making drums over a year ago. He sold the shells he had left on a forum. At that time I didn't who he was. So I bought a shell for only €65 and I had the drum finished by a pro. I could let my self destroy this shell. The drum is equipped with a Dunnet strainer, 30 degree bearing edges and rounded over and oiled. Lacquer would kill the drum. Koko was very happy with end result. So am I. :)

Image

regards rene
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Re: The WHY?!? snare thread.

Postby percusski » Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:38 pm

nomsgmusic wrote:Interesting take on the classic SD question.
WHY??
I like it the different slant!

I am NOT a gear head, but I have many snares. So I don't write a ridiculously long post, I'll do this... Here is a current picture of my SD shelf (minus two.) Below I'll list all the snares, and you can ask me why I like any of them.

I can tell you that I really don't get a new snare unless it fills a need (sound) that I don't already have. And I tend to take this viewpoint of snares.

I like to find where a snare "likes to live" (tuning, heads, wires, rims, etc...) and keep it there (basically.) When I want another snare sound, I pick another drum, instead of going down a possible wormhole of trying to get a snare sound "differently." That can often waste my time (and others) which is bad business (IMHO.) I keep the tweaking for the year or so after I get the drum. THAT is the time that I get to know the drum, and try to find where it sounds best (regarding the above components) then I tend to keep it there until the heads needs changing. I learned this approach from watching Steve Jordan work, and time spent with (and learning from) drum tech Artie Smith. It works for them, and it works for me.

I keep a bunch of rims (cob, maple, DC, single and double flange, and triple flange of a few different thicknesses,) heads, and different type of snare wires to experiment with.

Image

The snares that aren't in the picture are an Ocheltree 5.5 Phantom, and a cheap Tama Steel snare 5x10 (I think.) They were on a gig (sorry!)
The pictured snares are all 14's unless noted.

Top row: 6.5 Yamaha Brass, 4.5 Yamaha Erskine, 4.5 Custom Birch, 4.5 Solid Cherry Longo, 5.5 1980's Yamaha Steel, 8" Eames Naturaltone, 7x13 Brady Jarrah Stave, 7x12 Sleishman-ADM Jarrah Stave, 6.5x13 Yamaha Musashi Oak, 5.5x12 Musashi Oak, 12" and 10" Yamaha Stage Custom Birch (mountable.)

Second Row: 6" Longo solid Walnut, 6.5 Ludwig Hammered Bronze, 7" N&C Solid Maple, 5" 1920's two piece NOB shell Ludwig Black Beauty, 6.5 Eames Master Model Birch, 4.5 Brady Jarrah Ply, 6.5 Slingerland 1920's Professional NOB, 4.5 N&C Cast Aluminum, 8" Yamaha Recording Custom, 5" Hitmaker NOB (with wood hoops,) 5" Ludwig 60's Acrolite Plain shell, 6.5 Remo Gold Crown.

Bottom Row: 6.5 Slingerland 1970's COB, 6" Gretsch Custom w/ wood hoops, 4" Ludwig Downbeat, 8" Tempus Fiberglass, 4x15 1920's two piece NOB 6 lug, 5.5 DW Maple Mahogany, 8x15 1950's WFL, 6.5 Pearl Maple Orchestral triple strainer, 5.5 Gretsch COB 4160, 6.5x15 Birch Ludwig, 6x12 Tama Steel.

On floor: 6.5 UNIX Walnut Stave, 6.5 Gretsch wood, 5" 1960's Supraphonic.

Nice topic!
I will happily answer why I like and own any of these drums, and why I chose them over similar drums.
MSG


This is a fantastic collection, I'd find this too distracting to have that many personally but I understand your logic. I'm actually toying with the idea of getting a metal snare which I've avoided for a long time... Can you tell more about the NC aluminium and the old black beauty?
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Re: The WHY?!? snare thread.

Postby nomsgmusic » Wed Oct 14, 2015 10:12 pm

Well thanks, but they're just "tools" (I hate the word collection, sorry!)

The N&C Aluminum is a wonderful all around drum (supra on steroids, or a supra in HD.) Nice and sensitive for brushes, cut's through loud bands, great cross stick, sounds nice in the entire tuning range, I keep it at a lower medium (more rockish.) But at that tuning it still cuts (I think that's from the thicker walled shell.) It's aluminum so it's easy to tune, with very few harsh overtones to tune out. It feels nice under the stick (I love the feel of 4's and 4.5's, I think this is technically 4 and 5/8ths) The strainer works well, it is quiet, and holds tension under hard playing. Abit of a pain to change the snare wires on though. But the cam action snares are a real plus! I actually use them on a few different snares, they really seem to let the drum breathe (lesser tension on the head, while remaining sensitive, with very little buzz.) TF rims on this drum opened it up a bit more, creating a slightly "more supra, less steroids" sound, but I lost some meat on the cross stick. Snares off sound is very nice too, not too "timbale" like. To my ears, any 'thicker" heads destroy this drum's specialness. It's one of THE BEST all around drums that I own!

The 20's two piece is pretty special. The way I hear these drums is this. The extra metal that is used in the center bead overlap, and in the close chamber bearing edges, comes to somewhere between an extra two or three inches of "shell" (metal) on the drum. So a 5" drum has the resonating shell of close to a 8" drum, but it still feels like a 5". That's where the meat comes from. These drums have a great smoky midrange, and the lows are so controlled and focused, while the highs seem so nicely and gently rolled off. For some reason with (all or most) vintage nickel over brass drums, they are super easy to tune, I find it really hard to make this drum sound "bad." As with most drums, DC rims focus it a bit, but with that focus you lose some of the "smoke." I tried TF rims on it and didn't dig them, I haven't tried wood hoops yet, but I have a feeling they would work well. This drum takes all heads very well too. It has a nice resonant and warm snares off sound. I wish the single flange rims didn't chew sticks and brushes so much, because I love the way they sound. I have said this before, but I have gotten my Heuer Hitmaker (Japanese NOB shell with DC rims) to sound pretty close to the 1920's. You do lose the smoky kids, and gain some harsher high end, and if you tweak them out, the drum sounds a little more narrow and choked, but live it would be negligible. Under mic's in a studio there was a difference though. I have been experimenting with wood hoops on the Hitmaker, and so far it sounds a little closer to the 20's but loses some crack. The 20's just sits right inside the mix perfectly, transparent while occupying just enough sonic space within the mix. The vintage Ludwig strainers aren't perfect when you're hitting hard, but there are ways to deal with that. There is a reason these drums are legendary recording drums! Are they worth the HUUUUGE $$$ that they demand, NO I don't think so, but under the mic's in a studio I can't get any other metal drum to sound the same, or quite as good.

Sorry for the randomness of my thoughts, hope that helps!
MSG
[url][/url]bluejayrecords.com/drumatic
[url][/url]vicfirth.com/artists/mark_griffith.html
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Re: The WHY?!? snare thread.

Postby percusski » Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:00 pm

That's great thanks for the detailed response. Both drums sound incredible based on your description... Ah to have access to unlimited drums to try...Have been looking at Joyful Noise snares online, some of those sound fantastic, but I'd never heard of the company
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Re: The WHY?!? snare thread.

Postby Matus » Fri Oct 23, 2015 11:53 am

That's quite a remarkable collection, MSG! Quite honestly, I can't afford many snare drums, so I only have 3 main drums as of now.

- Yamaha Maple Custom Absolute, 14"x5,5". My main all-around snare drum. I fit it with Controlled Sound X, Ambassador Snare and Puresound Blaster wires. It gets fatter with those snare wires and the tuning range is ridiculous. I can even get many different sounds for specific gigs just by changing wire tension and the way I strike the head.
- Yamaha Gomezz Signature. Oak, 14"x8". This is my rock/metal snare drum. Comes with three extra venting holes that can be sealed with included rubber plugs. No matter how high I tune it, it never loses body. So far I've used it with an Emperor X head for live playing and Controlled Sound X for studio. Puresound standard wires for this one. My favourite setting is loose wires and crank it up. Kind of a Falling Into Infinity snare kind of sound but on steroids.
- DW Collector's 14"x5", year 1997. My first "adult" snare drum. I played endless weddings to buy it and I've used it on tons of tours and recordings. Right now it has Pearl Masterhoops, Controlled Sound batter head and Puresound Equalizer wires. Lots of crack, definitely my go-to snare drum if I want a 90's sound. Last time I used it, we did a Pearl Jam tribute concert. Perfect match.

- I just sold a Pearl Dennis Chambers snare drum. Ironically, I never used it for its original purpose. I always made it sound fat and low. Double ply heads and low tuning, sometimes wide open.

As for why, I'm a 90's guy when it comes to sound. I like powerful sounds with enough attack and a mid overtone. Might go for a Supraphonic when the time comes, but I can do mostly everything with those three snares.

BONUS: Auxiliary snares!

- Yamaha Musashi. Oak, 10"x5". Controlled Sound X and Peter Erskine snare wires. It sounds cool and open when tuned within the mid range but as you get higher it just gets painfully loud.
- Meinl 8" timbale-snare. Metal shell and one head with wires applied to it. It would remind you of the Remo TSS but with a lot more attack.
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Re: The WHY?!? snare thread.

Postby Odd-Arne Oseberg » Fri Nov 06, 2015 7:06 am

My TSS definetly is where it is because it's my only smaller drum. I have found uses for it, but generally I need something with a bit more volume in that spot. We had some 12s and 13s at my previous job that worked fine, but having my 14 Longo gives me a pretty good idea of what I want. It can't be the only one, but the second option will be really different.

I feel I'm sort of done. I have plenty of experimentation to do with these. It's not really a Vinnie fan boy thing, I jkust simply liked the sound he got from these and my ears are such that they can hear those qualities through most mediums. The popular spectrum of metal shells and a few wood drums that, though versatile, really don't sound similar to eachother at all.

That's really quite a a collection you have there and though I can't foresee mysef ever having the need, I guess there isn't really any real overlap there.

I do know guys who have only one 6,5 wood drum with wood hoops. Several guys. It's sort of a thing now. Another friend has a Krupa model as his only drum.
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Re: The WHY?!? snare thread.

Postby Rhythmatist » Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:21 pm

I guess I'm that oddball guy...well that goes without saying...but I have 4 snares one of which I use for every gig and session I do. It's a 5.5x14 SOTA Padauk...what's a SOTA you ask? Well, there was a drum builder in the Chicago area in the 80's who made these wonderful snares from different types of wood (Walnut, Rosewood and Padauk)...It's a segmented shell with reinforcing dowels. I bought mine around '87 and have rarely used anything else since. It just became a part of me I suppose. The great thing about this drum is its extreme versatility. I can tune it all manner of different ways and it simply takes on a different character. But it's the overall feel and response I get from this drum that I have never gotten from any other. It also has the most extreme dynamic range of any snare I've ever played. Most recently I've outfitted it with S-hoops and a Puresound 20 strand. I simply love playing this drum. This one pictured is very much like mine...different hardware but the shell is the same.

Image

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