Where is the line between "modern" and "vintage" kits?

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GoAndPractice
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Where is the line between "modern" and "vintage" kits?

Postby GoAndPractice » Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:27 pm

Hey, interested in discussion/information on the transition to what is the modern day kit. More specifically the switch from 4 pc. Ludwig/Slingerland style to 5 pc. Pearl/Yamaha style.

Is this where the Recording Custom's legend began? It seems like something happened around 1980 that drew a big line in the sand between current and vintage gear.

Even drum kits of today aren't that much different, they just seem to have shallower tom sizes and split lugs.

I was born in 1986 so i didn't live in this transition. I was watching some old Buddy Rich videos and it got me thinking. Random side question, if he were still around today what gear do you think he'd be playing? For some reason I feel like he'd be a DW/Sabian guy as much as that sounds like sacrilege.
bensdrums
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Re: Where is the line between "modern" and "vintage" kits?

Postby bensdrums » Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:27 am

Most of the stuff I've read (I was born in '79) points to Steve Gadd as the transition point to smaller drums (10-16 toms, two up/two down) becoming popular. I'm sure there were all sorts of guys experimenting with similar stuff prior and during, but Gadd and the RC were definitely a milestone, and some might argue the milestone that brought on the decline of Gretsch/Ludwig/Slingerland. Personally I think it's more a concept of Gadd being immensely popular among drummers, a trend change, and the inability of those three companies to innovate and shift with the changing trend, but there's all sorts of opinions of course. Today the drum manufacturing game is totally different, especially in the advertising and endorsement game, so it's kind of difficult to get a perspective on if you weren't in the "drum scene" during that time (and I was not).
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Paul Marangoni
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Re: Where is the line between "modern" and "vintage" kits?

Postby Paul Marangoni » Thu Jan 28, 2016 9:14 am

Gadd's instructional video was the first of its kind. It was the first time we got up close with a great drummer. A lot of drummers were inspired by what he played, and how he sounded, and that led to many copying Gadd's setup and tuning approach.

The demise of Rogers, Slingerland, etc. was more a result of the state of corporate America at the time. Factories weren't controlling quality properly, and the Japanese concept of JIT (just-in-time) manufacturing processes and other cultural differences resulted in high quality products suddenly coming out of Japan. This included automobiles in addition to musical instruments like guitars and drums.
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Pocketplayer
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Re: Where is the line between "modern" and "vintage" kits?

Postby Pocketplayer » Thu Jan 28, 2016 9:42 am

Good info Paul...I thought Gadd's video was original, but didn't know it
was the first. Early VHS days. Towards the late 80's they started to turn
out by a lot of guys. Wish I had my old MD's to flip through ads and see
who else had some early 80's videos. Googled but didn't see much listed by
date.

My first kit was Japanese...I just saw a blue sparkle drum kit and was in bliss.
My second kit was a used Slingerland possibly late 60's, early 70's bought used.
Horrible Champagne sparkle wrap.

https://reverb.com/blog/tuning-japanese-a-look-at-vintage-japanese-drum-sets

http://vintagedrumguide.com/japanese_drums/index.html

http://www.vintagedrumguide.com/slingerland.html
Jeff Porcaro Groove Master
http://jeffporcaro.blogspot.com
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Paul Marangoni
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Re: Where is the line between "modern" and "vintage" kits?

Postby Paul Marangoni » Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:05 am

Pocketplayer wrote:Good info Paul...I thought Gadd's video was original, but didn't know it
was the first.

I'm not sure it was the first. Bernard Purdie's may have come out before, or even a few others, but Gadd's was the first "holy shit, check this out!" video for sure.

"The first video we did with Steve in 1983 was a real watershed project, and then we did another in 1985,” says Siegel. “Over the years we’ve done many different projects with him, and each was gratifying in its own way. The tribute to Steve Gadd that we co-produced with Zildjian represented a culmination of a long, great relationship we’ve had with Steve, and it was definitely a highlight of our careers. We felt honored to share in the experience of honoring him.”
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GoAndPractice
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Re: Where is the line between "modern" and "vintage" kits?

Postby GoAndPractice » Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:29 am


Wow i feel so validated now!

My guess on the Sabian switch only has to do with the "it's not high enough" story with Lennie DiMuzio on the Buddy Rich VHS
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GoAndPractice
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Re: Where is the line between "modern" and "vintage" kits?

Postby GoAndPractice » Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:31 am

Paul Marangoni wrote:Gadd's instructional video was the first of its kind. It was the first time we got up close with a great drummer. A lot of drummers were inspired by what he played, and how he sounded, and that led to many copying Gadd's setup and tuning approach.

The demise of Rogers, Slingerland, etc. was more a result of the state of corporate America at the time. Factories weren't controlling quality properly, and the Japanese concept of JIT (just-in-time) manufacturing processes and other cultural differences resulted in high quality products suddenly coming out of Japan. This included automobiles in addition to musical instruments like guitars and drums.


Makes sense
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Old Pit Guy
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Re: Where is the line between "modern" and "vintage" kits?

Postby Old Pit Guy » Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:52 am

Another factor, certainly with Yamaha, was the focus on popular artist of the day endorsements. During the 80s, Yamaha was nearly a de facto choice if for no other reason than so many name guys played their gear. You may not have chosen a Yamaha kit, but if you read Modern Drummer or visited a stocked music store, that deep roster of artist relationships was given considerable page / wall / shelf space.

What was interesting to me, and in total contrast, was that as far as PIT was concerned during this time, there were no bargains to be had from Yamaha; there was no dialog with them; and, in fact, I bought Tama Swingstar or Pearl Export from Stan at Pro Drum without ever thinking of Yamaha. There was one Yamaha kit at PIT at that time, and it lived in the studio (Hollywood Blvd. school) when it wasn't used for Instructional videos, mostly by Ralph Humphrey --a black wrapped 9000 series from the late 70s.

And so if you listen to the longer Yamaha video, if you can understand what's being said, when asked about focus going forward, the answer was artist relations and new product lines. Back to the future.

edit: I take that back. There was a white kit of 7000 series in big sizes in a room somewhere. But that's it.

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