Playing Covers: How Picky is Too Picky???

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Odd-Arne Oseberg
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Re: Playing Covers: How Picky is Too Picky???

Postby Odd-Arne Oseberg » Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:34 am

Pocketplayer wrote:these Youtube kids who play guitar parts w/tone exactly like artists makes me want
that type of player...I did make the mistake of telling the guitar player this...
that did not go over well!


For things like this a guitar player's ego should be able to handle the discussion.

There are more things to this, though.

There are a couple of general ways guitar players get their tone and there usually a preference.

Tone is a big thing for electric guitar players and a thing that's generally not understood any better by the rest of the band than e.g. how little things on the hats, inner dynamics or whatever affects a drum groove.

Personally, I can relate a lot to what Vinnie said in the Sweetwater interview about how it used to be a thing to have your own voice. That's what was important. I miss that soo much these days. We're turning everything into classical music.

Also, just the basic thing about fitting into every style of music really comes down to being present and having big ears.

My guitar tone is basically a strat with low output pickups, a mid heavy pedal and clean or semi clean Fender or Plexi type amp. I can fake almost anything except a really scooped metal sound with that, but based on the ears of the average keyboard player or drummer I've played with I can fake that enough, too.

So, it's always interesting in these cases to know exactly what the rest of the band actually can hear. What parameters are important in regard to authenticity to them. I can almost guarantee I can fool them long before I can fool myself in pretty much every case. We, like other instrumentalist go through phases in our formative ears where we really nail someone elses style and tone. I've had my Clapton, Hendrix, Knopfler, Carlton, Ritenour, Luke, Yngwie, Vai phase. I can get really close, but my thing now and how it's been for a long time closer to Landau than anything else. That means I'll adjust for the style, tight atttitude, type of licks, play parts that are essential, but do it within that frame.

Guitar player like Mike or drummers like Vinne who play any style convincingly, but you still know who it is.

With the advent of all the modelers that do any sort of tone you can copy anything these days. For a player like me though, who look at the electric guitar as a loud acoustic instrument, it's getting sort of like electronic drums, though. The dynamics and touch sensitivity are gone.
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Paul Marangoni
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Re: Playing Covers: How Picky is Too Picky???

Postby Paul Marangoni » Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:25 pm

Pocketplayer wrote:you HAVE to


The only thing you have to do is support the musicians you're playing with and hopefully create interesting music worth listening to as a group. Getting hung up on the minutiae is just nostalgia, and nostalgia is probably society's greatest failing at the moment.

I much prefer hearing a band playing a song I know if they try to make it their own rather than butcher a carbon copy version. It always falls short. A L W A Y S.
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Odd-Arne Oseberg
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Re: Playing Covers: How Picky is Too Picky???

Postby Odd-Arne Oseberg » Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:01 pm

Paul Marangoni wrote: nostalgia is probably society's greatest failing at the moment.


Easy to agree with that. In fact the issues I've met with old classically trained teachers who now try to be cool and modern, who in reality are missing a huge part of history and even misunderstanding their own, can be explained quite well under that heading.

There's a scene with a bass player from the Strauss Dynasty series that should be inserted here.

Getting kids into that frame these days is harder because of that. The beginning is of course to know more about their favourite artists that they do, and then the solution is to expose their influences and overtime the whole family tree.


Paul Marangoni wrote:
I much prefer hearing a band playing a song I know if they try to make it their own rather than butcher a carbon copy version. It always falls short. A L W A Y S.


Certainly more interesting and that's how some of us still grew up. Seldom did we have the gear or the crew. We did the best with what we had and tried the best we could to make a valid statement.

One might call these things a jazzer or improvisers attitude today, but that's also what rock music is to me. That's what Jimi and Cream did. You're there, you're present, you listen, you feel, you play.

The tradition in all styles is innovation. Doesn't mean it has to be forced. We all draw from things and give clear nods, too. It just has to work and it's nice if it's real.
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Re: Playing Covers: How Picky is Too Picky???

Postby Julián Fernández » Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:36 pm

Paul Marangoni wrote:
Pocketplayer wrote:you HAVE to


The only thing you have to do is support the musicians you're playing with and hopefully create interesting music worth listening to as a group. Getting hung up on the minutiae is just nostalgia, and nostalgia is probably society's greatest failing at the moment.

I much prefer hearing a band playing a song I know if they try to make it their own rather than butcher a carbon copy version. It always falls short. A L W A Y S.

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Re: Playing Covers: How Picky is Too Picky???

Postby Odd-Arne Oseberg » Sun Apr 16, 2017 1:30 pm

Pocketplayer wrote:
* TOTO Hold the Line (I play this exactly like Jeff...open hats in same place,
same fills...heavy triplet feel on hats)

I go back to Yvette Preyer w/M McDonald on I Keep Forgetting (no disrespect for
her playing) BUT...she played 8th notes...EIGHTH NOTES on the hats of this
Jeff classic groove. That is anathema for me! HOW...WHY? Why didn't Michael
say something? You get what I am saying? How many "people/drummers" heard
this and thought, "What is happening with this song?" I just do not get this kinda thing.
The 16th note pattern, ONE HAND, is just what we do as drummers...you HAVE to
play that 16th note groove!



On "Keep Forgetting" I thank Godess for those hi-hat openings. That little breath of fresh air that keeps my hats from melting. :lol:


I think here some sort of 16ths there, but it is however annoyingly slow.






This is a bit better




It's really hard though, for Jeff, too.
chris perra
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Re: Playing Covers: How Picky is Too Picky???

Postby chris perra » Sun Apr 16, 2017 5:10 pm

My band tries to get the essence of the song.. and then makes it our own, by orchestration and our own limitations or character.

Never had a complaint or comment negatively except from other musicians,.. Most people don't care as long as they can recognize the songs, and are having fun that's all that matters.

They will complain if you are sloppy and don't sound like a cohesive band... Style is one thing , skill and execution is another..
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Pocketplayer
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Re: Playing Covers: How Picky is Too Picky???

Postby Pocketplayer » Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:55 pm

OK...it was good to read through all the comments here.

When I watch a cover I know what I want to hear...and
this dictates my motivation to keep the song as close to
studio as possible. When I hear a band, yes, even TOTO
cover Pamela, I want to hear the same hat pattern Jeff played
which is why Shannon is the best drummer for that band.

If I played Josie, I am going to woodshed Keltner's pattern
as close as possible and then realize I will never get it...but
I will come close. Same with Peg. This is why I dig Kadie's
covers...he NAILS sound and style and I respect the attention
to detail and the discipline involved. Watch his opening fill
for Brick House...perfect!

IF I was in a band like Alice in Chains per se then there is more
band freedom from a fan base to make it your own. Same
with Foo Fighters, etc

I saw Heart play Barracuda and hated it...good drummer, but
just did not capture the groove for me...at all! I would have
felt embarrassed. I guess I play for the other drummers out there
on covers. To each their own...but I know what I like to hear
and try to play that way.

I worked in a Holiday Inn in Indiana as a waiter and Fri-Sun nights bands came
in playing covers. There was maybe one band that stood out to me
and the drummer (Roland kit) played to detail and tried to capture
the original drum sound. The crowd dug it...it was like seeing
ten bands in one setting. Same with the guitarist...captured tone
and style and this was 1990. Respect. There were a lot of bad
bands as well. Then there was that one band that covered RUSH
and other more complicated tunes...crowd LOVED it over the
typical covers...more respect for that drummer...he really devoured
Peart and covered him well.

All a matter of personal conviction...and time, sometimes we just
are limited by time to prepare a set. The one band I had the most trouble
was The Police--covering Copeland was a bitch for me. I just stopped
trying to capture him and did my own thing as best I could. Same with
Pink Floyd The Wall...bass played was all over me on that one...said I
never got the hats right.
Jeff Porcaro Groove Master
http://jeffporcaro.blogspot.com
kaide
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Re: Playing Covers: How Picky is Too Picky???

Postby kaide » Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:03 am

f I played Josie, I am going to woodshed Keltner's pattern
as close as possible and then realize I will never get it...but
I will come close. Same with Peg. This is why I dig Kadie's
covers...he NAILS sound and style and I respect the attention
to detail and the discipline involved. Watch his opening fill
for Brick House...perfect!


Hey thanks again Joe!!!!!
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langmick
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Re: Playing Covers: How Picky is Too Picky???

Postby langmick » Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:09 am

I love Thomas, but blazing singles in every fill. The need to put your stamp on cover tunes rather than playing solid fills and not drawing attention to yourself, I'm not a big fan of that philosophy.

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Odd-Arne Oseberg
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Re: Playing Covers: How Picky is Too Picky???

Postby Odd-Arne Oseberg » Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:01 am

langmick wrote:I love Thomas, but blazing singles in every fill. The need to put your stamp on cover tunes rather than playing solid fills and not drawing attention to yourself, I'm not a big fan of that philosophy.




I think I'll simply call that non-creative overplaying.

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