Vinnie with Dom . . .

User avatar
Paul Marangoni
Posts: 1730
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:39 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Vinnie with Dom . . .

Postby Paul Marangoni » Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:08 pm

Morgenthaler wrote:I am fully aware of the pains of recording artists and the diminishing of royalties and general income that the digitisation of
the industry has led to. Do I think that legislation against technology is the way forward? NO.

Do I think that putting your money where your mouth is, would be demanding more respect? Absolutely.
If Vinnie is as fed up as he wants us to believe in that interview, it makes no sense that he keeps supporting that model by
playing on recordings that are shared digitally through streaming services.

While I recognise that Neil Young had very little success with his pono project, I do hold him in the highest regard for trying
to actively do something about the quality of digital musical consumption.

An even better example is Patreon, a concept founded by Jack Conte, one of my favourite contemporary artists.
With Patreon, I get to financially back artists (I currently back 3) on an ongoing basis. I simply contribute to their everyday well-being by sending them
small amounts of money every month.


Vinnie should ask anyone who hires him how they intend to distribute their music, and then turn down the work if there will be any streaming of the product. Seriously?
And your solution is the "virtual begging bowl"? Nice. No thanks.

This is not about legislation against technology. It's about legislating BEHAVIOR. For fuck's sake, stop twisting shit around. This is about stopping Google from promoting search results that lead to pirate sites. This is about stopping YouTube from allowing and even encouraging uploading of content ILLEGALLY. This is about bringing laws up to date and getting rid of that stupid "safe harbor" bullshit that they all hide behind. It's about the USE OF TECHNOLOGY to use the supposedly "protected" property of others for your own gain without compensating those creators.

How about we make everything free, and let you pay what you want, if you so desire? Stop paying your phone bill. Stop paying your Internet provider. Why should the network cost anything? It's the content that is available on the network that you desire.

I'm so fucking fed up with people who claim to be musicians and yet just accept and even defend this crap. In-fucking-credible.
Tombo 7/4
Posts: 214
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:40 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Vinnie with Dom . . .

Postby Tombo 7/4 » Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:35 pm

His analysis of the state of the industry is spot on.
He was answering Dom's question as to how younger musicians can have a career in the current music industry.
H'es not moaning, his fame is done and he won't miss work. I see it as him being concerned about the future of the next generation.

As for "throwing things out in the Universe", I'm a physicist and I totally get what h'es talking about although I can't explain exactly how it works but it works. Both for positive and negative things.
Avi_drums
Posts: 174
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:10 am

Re: Vinnie with Dom . . .

Postby Avi_drums » Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:20 pm

"I think our minds are, in fact, extended beyond our brains in every act of attention and perception. This is not a new view, it’s a view put forth by Plato and other Greek philosophers. It’s the view of perception in most Hindu and British philosophers.

Another way of thinking about this is through Quantum Entanglement and Dean Radin, who gave a talk here at Google sometime ago, a few months ago, has written a book called “Entangled Minds“ suggesting that when people have close social relationships and interactions, their minds become entangled. So that when they separate, there’s still an entanglement between them so a change in one is reflected by a change in another. Quantum nonlocality, entanglement of quantum particles is well known, well documented and this is in fact the basis of now technological applications in quantum cryptography and quantum computing. And what that shows is that particles that are part of the same system when they move apart, a change in one is immediately associated with the change in the other. This is independent of distance unlike many other physical phenomena. It doesn’t matter if it’s an inch apart or a mile apart. It’s distance independent entanglement or non-local connection.
"

https://singjupost.com/rupert-sheldrake ... ranscript/
User avatar
beat hit
Posts: 495
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 6:28 pm
Location: GTA

Re: Vinnie with Dom . . .

Postby beat hit » Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:27 pm

" You don't get to choose what's important to me."

Choosing for you was not the intent at all Jeppe, just curious on your opinion on the overall discussion topic.

I really don't see the point that Vinnie should just shut-up because of his reputation and status in the industry. On the contrary, it's those who are more visible who are in a better position to reach a wider audience. He paid his dues, he's earned the right to speak up on this. He's not moaning at all, just speaking the truth with respect.

Vinnie is the main conversation-fuel on HOD, with all due respect, I find it ironic that he gets so much venum and disrespect by some on this board.. I don't get it.
User avatar
Pocketplayer
Posts: 1396
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 5:41 am

Re: Vinnie with Dom . . .

Postby Pocketplayer » Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:36 am

Hey...I was WRONG! Morg is correct...I did not communicate well...
My mind went back many interviews on VC's Sting/Gabriel story and
in those I do not ever recall, "Universe..." in fact, back then, that
phrase or usage was not used as a "spiritual" way to say there is a
"bigger picture/cosmic sovereign power I trust"...

VC is a Christian, and instead of saying I trusted God he said universe...
My bad...

That aside, I still believe he is SPOT ON about his thoughts and still believe
he deserves to be heard as a senior member of the music community and
"tribal leader" if you will...I have this "feeling" that Vinnie cannot quit
this ""industry" and does not want to go into drum legend oblivion the
way things are...and for that, he is even more an ambassador. Just
a gut feeling about him...

Upton Sinclair reference...cool, has one of the most concise quotes about
human nature ever:
You can't get a man to understand something when his career depends
upon him not understanding


I mentioned this earlier but will repeat...Tristan Harris broke the above quote
because his conscience told him something is not right...he could have cashed
it in bigtime...I strongly believe people are totally naive about technology and
addiction...and when you grow up with FREE, like getting out of denial,
one is blind like an addiction--a right, everyone does it so...something common
with no regard to the HOW...similar to asking kids where a Chicken McNugget
comes from...there is almost NO connection that they are eating a bird!
(this takes into account fast food companies probably use as little actual
protein as possible to avoid a tangential conversation
)

http://www.tristanharris.com/essays/

http://www.tristanharris.com/

This is a little "out of box" but De Niro and Vinnie to me are at the same level of
"respect" and "paid your dues" and "endurance" as artists...worthy of listening

Jeff Porcaro Groove Master
http://jeffporcaro.blogspot.com
User avatar
Odd-Arne Oseberg
Posts: 1284
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:04 am
Location: The physical plane.
Contact:

Re: Vinnie with Dom . . .

Postby Odd-Arne Oseberg » Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:56 am

Semantics

and..

Interpretation, usually guided by level of consciousness and/or simply the humility to want to understand instead of projecting.
User avatar
willyz
Posts: 509
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:10 pm
Location: New York Adjacent

Re: Vinnie with Dom . . .

Postby willyz » Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:23 pm

...and y'all wonder why people come and go here.

I'll admit that I lurk from time to time, and appreciate when good discussion is had.

But the discussion quickly becomes so hostile...

...that being said:

I think we need to be thinking about what Vinnie says regarding the industry, what we're all saying about the industry- and think about how this all affects not just the guys on top but the the little guy and those in between. If the culture (or behavior as Paul mentioned) is diminished, rather the value of music (or any medium) is diminished (both in our day to day culture and in monetary terms), then that not only changes things for a serious pro like Vinnie, but that changes for the weekend warriors too.

It's easy to make a pity party for oneself and make oneself out to be a victim, but I'm fairly certain there is a direct correlation between the changes we've seen in the past ten years in the industry and the education of a population when it comes to art that's out on the marketplace. If people aren't willing to pay for a record online, or a song, or a streaming service, then it's no wonder that there's less gigs out there for the little guys- simply put: people don't care and don't have the knowledge as a culture to care.

I digress- my life is very different to when it was back when I was hustling after going to LAMA in Austin, playing most nights of the week in addition a day job, playing enough gigs to nearly be able to quit the day job, lugging the gear around, getting little sleep, etc. But it was still worth it to have that drive, because at that time (2008-2012) people were still willing to pay to go to a local gig, the venues were still willing to pay for the band/artist, there was still a culture around going to a record store, buying some CDs, maybe some vinyl, etc.

Now there isn't that same culture and I think it's no coincidence that as the population devalued music on both the cultural and monetary level, that the quality of music that the industry pushes declines too.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that we need to, ideally not in a hostile fashion, be having these discussions, we really do. Because if guys like us aren't thinking forward, trying to turn things around, and not educating people, then we'll never see any progress in legislation. It starts with us. It pains me, even in my current industry to see people working for free just for the sake of 'doing what they love'. It's acceptable, especially for younger people, to have a passion and the drive to pursue that passion, but not value the need to get paid fairly for their time and the work they put out into the world (because art is for everyone or some bullshit). It pains me that people can't tell (even without any musical knowledge) that when they listen to EDM, pop, etc that they're listening to the same thing on repeat and that they're not intelligent enough to come to the conclusion that EVERYTHING SOUNDS THE SAME.

We must educate ourselves and educate those that don't think it's important to pay for music, or for the movie they pulled down online, etc- they're the same people that would choose to listen to Kesha over the Beatles if they were stuck on a desert island for the rest of their lives.

I feel like I'm struggling to make my ideal point and am truly in diatribe/rant territory here, (and to be frank music isn't a huge part of my life anymore and perhaps I'm generalizing a bit on this topic), but I stand with the notion that there must be some legislation/regulation for artists, and that file sharing, torrents, whatever MUST be stopped. We should live in a world where we value the art that we love enough to shell out and support the artists, musicians, engineers, etc in a way that makes sense. How can there be more music available than ever, more licensing than ever, but everyone down the line is making less money? That's not right.

...but yeah, I'd still like to hear Vinnie talk more about playing. :D
Got Blushda?
User avatar
Odd-Arne Oseberg
Posts: 1284
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:04 am
Location: The physical plane.
Contact:

Re: Vinnie with Dom . . .

Postby Odd-Arne Oseberg » Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:20 pm

I pretty much agree with Willyz on every point.

To me the relation is very clear. It starts in the music schools, which in small communities is the source of their entire cultural future.

When I've described my previous job situations a bit yhis is what I'm talking about. This is the true essence of the things I'm trying to solve. It's quite simple for me now, but well I'm a 190 IQ guy, I've spent my entire life trying to understand this and I have the humility and curiosity to constantly improve.

The average leaders in these institutions are either way outdated old men or seriously immature, inexperienced femi-narcissistic females. There's a reason for that, but it's not really inportant in this discussion unless I would write 100 pages. Way too stupid to get it, but also, and here's the kicker, even in official capacity, have no issues with copyright infringement. This is related to responsibilty in every other area.

To value something you have to understand it. It's not about everyone becoming a musician, as they say. It's about having a positive experience and understanding both what it takes and appreciate the evolving and exploring musician.

We see this in regular schools, too. Then there are the few situations that don't suffer so much yet and that's because traditional delegated routines are still in place. The people involved don't need to understand. Wanna do my job well you have to understand every single part of the equation, why something works or doesn't work and how each chain influences the other. I pretty much just explained why that job sholdn't exist.

Not going into a teaching discussion, it's really a universal concept and the "gate keeper" frame applies. Teaching, parenting, not only overproduction of bullshit, but it's all out there. There are good sides to this in a worse-before-it-can-get-better-sort of way, but that's very long term.

See. Opinions have taken the place of true knowledge. There's a sex equality thing here too, that will take about one more generation to fully balance out.

There has to be some sort of frame based on integrity. The average person is not an independent thinker. If it was still "en vogue" the average person would still be a homophobic racist. We also go for the easiest solutions.

Apart from your typical toolaniacs (hey, I made new word :D ) technology is making it real easy to be a minimalist. There will be some new standards and I imagine that all these new payment options and music will end up merging in new ways. There is also a connection between this modern lifestyle and our ability to value simple things more again. We're already seeing a bit of that trend really. We tend to overuse new toys, but we get tired and get past it.

I've mentioned it a few times before, but live music is actually growing here again. It's not cover bands in clubs though, you have to do your own thing.

There is another side to the salary thing, too. Things in the world are evening out and the west will have to reduce consumption.

Now, what would happen if we were able to battle piracy in e.g.



?
User avatar
Pocketplayer
Posts: 1396
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 5:41 am

Re: Vinnie with Dom . . .

Postby Pocketplayer » Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:32 pm

Time for a reboot to get back to center
...man his snare & BD sound good here! THUMP-A-LISIOUS

Jeff Porcaro Groove Master
http://jeffporcaro.blogspot.com
User avatar
Old Pit Guy
Posts: 393
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2010 2:05 pm

Re: Vinnie with Dom . . .

Postby Old Pit Guy » Sun Jun 11, 2017 5:33 am

willyz wrote:...and y'all wonder why people come and go here.

I'll admit that I lurk from time to time, and appreciate when good discussion is had.

But the discussion quickly becomes so hostile...

...that being said:

I think we need to be thinking about what Vinnie says regarding the industry, what we're all saying about the industry- and think about how this all affects not just the guys on top but the the little guy and those in between. If the culture (or behavior as Paul mentioned) is diminished, rather the value of music (or any medium) is diminished (both in our day to day culture and in monetary terms), then that not only changes things for a serious pro like Vinnie, but that changes for the weekend warriors too.



I'm one of the 'come and go[ne]' guys.

I'll try not to offend anyone, but since I realize that the half-dozen or so denizens tend to take attitudes that break from established convention personally, I expect to fail miserably unless I govern myself like a mouse pissing on cotton to not wake the cat. And that just isn't going to happen.

I've read every post. Twice. And somewhere between the end, when the "190 IQ guy" opined that I must understand something to appreciate it, and further back with Jeppe's brutal honesty (which I do appreciate), I couldn't help but sense the missing irony of the Internet as the venue for the topic. And with that, I will offer the full .01 value of my opinion and return to purgatory. 

In the other thread on this topic, old as it is now, I wrote about how people have to sincerely care before any of this changes, and how that was unlikely to happen. True to form, that received the requisite rebuke.  Because, well, people obviously do care, right? Wrong. As much of this thread bears witness to, people tend to care mostly about themselves. Not that there's anything terribly wrong with that.

And so to flesh-out my first go at it, the problem as I see it, and it's way more than just with the music business, is that the Internet has democratized not just information, but most tenets of conventional wisdom and culture. It determines everything from elections to taste in music to what is or isn't news. And also what does and doesn’t amount to politically correct opinion. And so the people decide what is Trending and what is politically correct.

Well, I'm here to say that these are not good things to be based on a democratic model, because a democratic model enshrines mediocrity. And the Internet knows that all too well. And it’s easy to exploit. I don't know about you, but I prefer people who know a hell of a lot about something, and have the credentials and history to prove it, sitting around a table trying to determine the best course or two so the rest of us can choose one as we go about our business. Things tend to turn out better that way. This is nothing new; take a moment to explore what the Greeks had to say about Democracy.

However, because the Internet is bursting with mediocre thought — we have the Normal Curve to prove it — the result is elected politicians unfit for their jobs; "scientists" who write and publish their own books and decry peer review as laborious and unnecessary; millions who steal other people’s work and intellectual property, and others who don’t give a shit about any of it.

The way I see it this will not change until the model changes, because the Normal Curve doesn't change of its own accord. And if we're going to sit back and allow that big amorphous hump in the middle of the curve that is the Internet to determine important things, like whether people who spend their professional lives in the arts can make a living from it, those things are going to suffer, and we’re going to suffer right along with it because people who think critically aren’t going to take their place anytime soon.

Return to “Drumming Chat”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 16 guests