Vinnie with Dom . . .

Avi_drums
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Re: Vinnie with Dom . . .

Postby Avi_drums » Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:23 pm

The 'gatekeepers' are now marketing bubble gum as legit music. I was with someone recently who was freaking out when Joe's Garage was playing on the cd player on the drive back to my place. 'Change it change it!' Later in the evening, I'm subjected to her iphone playlist. Out of about 40 shitty tunes, virtually none had real instruments.

With regard to some of the other pedantic comments, intuition and degrees of telepathy are part of the human condition. We all have those experiences where you have a seemingly obscure, random thought, and then out of nowhere, you find someone else tuned in to the same thought, at the same time. It's mathematically improbable that it is a pure coincidence. It's a flow state.

http://www.bbc.com/news/av/science-envi ... eakthrough
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GoAndPractice
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Re: Vinnie with Dom . . .

Postby GoAndPractice » Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:48 pm

Steve Holmes wrote:Well, it was nice to hear him talk about drumming for the first 10 minutes.

I really need to do an interview with Weck and Vinnie playing clips of my favorite stuff of theirs and get them talking about it. Ugh.


That's a great idea.
If anyone can make it happen here, it's you!

That'd be great to see a clip of their playing and then be able to hear them talk nuts and bolts to the question "okay what was that?"
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Paul Marangoni
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Re: Vinnie with Dom . . .

Postby Paul Marangoni » Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:56 pm

Julián Fernández wrote:The old model is collapsing. No legislation will stop it. Say you ban all streaming services (which is impossible), you think people will start paying for music again as they did 20 years ago? Not gonna happen. Unfair? You bet.


Who said that streaming services should be banned? What old model is collapsing? The one that says you aren't allowed to break the law? Okay, stop paying your cable/phone bill and see how that works out for you. Let's see if your job isn't replaced by A.I. or robots in the next five years too.

If music is worth listening to, it's worth paying for. If you want to be subjected to advertising in order to listen for free (as in free Spotify, or even radio for that matter), that's okay too. The ad revenue should go to those who create the music. If you want to give your music away for free because you feel that it will somehow help build your fan base, that's fine too. Just because Jacob Collier won a Grammy doesn't mean that any fucktard is going to be able to do what he did. Jacob worked very hard to develop his skills. There aren't many others willing to do the work.

Don't give me this "it's not gonna happen" bullshit. It will happen, and YOU NEED TO HELP MAKE IT HAPPEN.
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Julián Fernández
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Re: Vinnie with Dom . . .

Postby Julián Fernández » Wed Jun 07, 2017 5:28 pm

Paul Marangoni wrote:What old model is collapsing?


The model Vinnie was talking about. Big budgets. People buying records. That´s what we´re talking about, right?

Paul Marangoni wrote: If music is worth listening to, it's worth paying for.


That´s just an opinion and many people "pay" music by using streaming services, so not sure what´s your point.

Paul Marangoni wrote: There aren't many others willing to do the work.


Again, not the point. I just said that saying that we need people buying cds in order to prevent shitty music to take over is not true. Shitty music is taking over for much deeper reasons than that.
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beat hit
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Re: Vinnie with Dom . . .

Postby beat hit » Wed Jun 07, 2017 5:44 pm

Who owns the systems, platforms where music is loaded should be responsible by law to share the revenue back with the artists, period. They should also be responsible to develop the adequate technology, filters to police itself. Similar to VISA, Master Card who are liable for credit card frauds, security breach, etc. They're their own gate-keepers, they have to develop/purchase solid security systems, the burden is on them by law. Can't see why the music-sharing platforms can't be steered in a similar manner.
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Paul Marangoni
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Re: Vinnie with Dom . . .

Postby Paul Marangoni » Wed Jun 07, 2017 5:56 pm

Julián Fernández wrote:Big budgets. People buying records. That´s what we´re talking about, right?


No. We're talking about getting control over our own creations, and being able to decide if and where it is made available. Big budgets and musicians being able to rehearse and record together in a real studio with a proper engineer will return once people are making money again.
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Avi_drums
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Re: Vinnie with Dom . . .

Postby Avi_drums » Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:24 pm

Paul Marangoni wrote:Big budgets and musicians being able to rehearse and record together in a real studio with a proper engineer will return once people are making money again.


Drake and a slew of other lame acts are aligning with music streaming conglomerates and making large cash. With the move towards bubble gum, real musicians are being squeezed out. Most people don't give a shit about sound quality, or whether or not there are real musicians.

Ominously, Google et al. can define cultures with algorithms and advertising revenue.
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Steve Holmes
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Re: Vinnie with Dom . . .

Postby Steve Holmes » Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:43 pm

I suppose I'm just more interested in drumming as a topic coming from him., that's all.
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Morgenthaler
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Re: Vinnie with Dom . . .

Postby Morgenthaler » Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:49 pm

Paul Marangoni wrote:
I'm really not surprised. Vinnie takes a stand and talks about an issue that we should all care about, and you guys just shit all over it. Shame on you. Now get back to your sticking exercises.


Shit all over it? How on earth did you make that leap? And no, I won't feel ashamed for having an opinion about unscientific new age claims.

If the universe worked in a way that you could just *want* a gig with Sting, he'd have a LOT of drummers right now.
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Odd-Arne Oseberg
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Re: Vinnie with Dom . . .

Postby Odd-Arne Oseberg » Thu Jun 08, 2017 3:17 am

There are diferent issues all around the world. Some places are quite impossible, but in those places piracy was always the way, more or less.

The illegal downloading thing was of cours huge, as in most other places, but it clearly was more about convenience than wanting to steal. That's the human beast and streaming services changed that.

For TV, these services are the new TV stations. They even produce their own stuff.

With music there are two ways. Not everyone is on Spotify and if they sell songs on their own site the rates are more than fair. Getting in bed with the big boys, who can certainly give you a wider audience, that's not even close to being the case.

With record companies it was a bit different. They took full reposnsibility for the investment in making the product, but if your second record didn't make any money there's be a problem.

It's a complicated system now. Great ease of use for the consumer, but there are a lot of people involved in new processes to ake things happen.

Norwegian farmers are on strike right now. They are almost every year. They're the first link in the chain feeling they're not getting a good enough deal. Some change the model of their business and go the route of farmer markets, their own shop or developing their own unique usually organic products. Some don't want to do that and some can't. Some have natural access to a customer base that way, but some simply don't.

People who've been lucky and had steady work wih big names are rare.

In this, it's the little guy who's loosing.

The big shows have reduced prices a little bit. They had to. But, see bar gigs pay they same they did 30-40 years ago.

There's an attitude thing here and there's a classical vs. jazz and popular music thing going on that's very real. I talk about that a lot in relation to teaching as that's really the same thing. We now basically have outdated people trying to be modern working with young people who aren't ready. There's a whole lot of real competent people being treated rather weird as the leaders aren't themselves informed and competent enough to make the right choices in who they hire for jobs they themselves don't and never will understand.

It's about the little towns doing it their own way. That's nothing new really. It's the attitude and how the value of a certain type of music or musical skill is perceived.

This creates today's situation where what's mostly going on is well established artists, many that previously retired, touring more. This is great for those who finally get to see their favourites, but that's the model now. There's state sponsored classical stuff, then there's these artists hat in many cases are little more than their own tribute bands and there are the guys in the middle ot doing so well, The same people who are responsible for keeping i alive.

There's so much to this. If you go to an AC/DC show, you are in my mind going to a classical concert. See some jazz guys reproducing things in "authentic" ways is the same. The loss of the essence, the attitude of jazz is very much involved here.

There's a new electronic element now. Some of us, incliuding me I guess, aren't really into that. I think mostly because we don't really hear anything new or exciting just because you change some sounds.

It's an attitude thing, it's all related and you find it everywhere. There are reasons for it and thigs can be solved individually.

Part of the problem is technology and people not depending on eachother like they used to. We don't have much room for the specialist which I think is part of what Vinnie was touching on.

The easy access also means that people aren't being lend to challenge themselves. For some of us that's still how it is, it's who we are, but it's harder with music than some other activities.

Being able o make it in art is and has always been hard. Not really sure if it's harder today, but it's clear that there's a lack of balance in revenue.

I see some positive changes, though. We humans are supposed to be social creatures and even here I see a growing market for medium size concert halls.

The key right now is to play live and find new ways to make a bit more at those shows.
Unbeknownst to many, odd time is just short for Odd-Arne time.

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