Musicality

Rene
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Re: Musicality

Postby Rene » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:55 pm

electrizer wrote:How to play music instead of just drumming? When I watch a drum video there are those "huh!" moments sometimes, but not after a super fast lick but after those few notes you don't expect but which really "tie the music together". I was thinking drum vocabulary but it cannot be just the amount of time you spend practicing rudiments and licks. What goes on through Vinnie's or Dave's or Benny's (Greb - I really think/hope this dude will go far) when they play that makes their drumming music instead of just drumming?



Why is it that the music feels great (to me) when Phil Rudd plays the song instead of chris slade. Or compare Chad's playing with Frank Zappa during his first tour or the last tour... At first it felt like he could play the music technically but could not get to level musically. Dire straits had three different drummers. Benny greb's cover of Vinnie's I'm tweeked felt like "I'm not tweeked". I've listened to the Karizma album with Vinnie, Garfield etc tons of times, but can sporadically appreciate Vinnie's overplaying. Goes trough their minds the feel the music requires, or trying to play the right stuff at the right time, assuring chemistry with the other players or the music itself, or just do what the producer wants me to do? Vinnie's live performances with Sting got less busy and more subtle over time .... Why? Age? Sting?
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Odd-Arne Oseberg
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Re: Musicality

Postby Odd-Arne Oseberg » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:20 pm

Vinnie's playing on "Document" represents a high point for me. Tour was the first time I saw him live, Mike also represents the greatest influence ever in my guitar tone.

The thing there is first around and groove. Looking back now it sound to me it just got deeper and deeper all through the 90s. A lot of busy playing, but it's both cool and tasteful to me. A big part of what sets him apart is that he's able to not accent every not. There's dynamics and a sort of jazz sensibility even when he plays hard. Ghost notes and some spice doesn't get in the way. It's all very supportive or complementing what else is going on. That little tension that sometimes occurs is my favourite part of it. Like Mike and Anthony.
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langmick
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Re: Musicality

Postby langmick » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:10 pm

You ever think about what music is? Why does it seem that there is a past, present and future?

There is only this moment in time that passes, and is gone. But our mind fills in consciousness and makes it seem like a composition has space.

It really only exists for that tiny moment. I'm into physics and the nature of reality. There is no past, there is no future, there is only now, and then that is gone. What constitutes persistent state?

No I haven't smoking hooch. :)

Going to the Giuliana thing about repeating yourself, Jeff Porcaro does this a heckuva lot...but would you call that signature fill he has unmusical?

It's when he uses it, how he hits it, how he places it, how it ties the music together a certain way. I think it is really musical! It has so many uses.

I must admit, I find Giuliana's drumming sometimes unmusical, it doesn't breathe or move the phrases along. He is too "visible" inside the music. He is commenting and pushing, how can you listen when you are commenting in 32nd and 16th notes...anyway.

If he were to play Us and Them by Pink Floyd, would he be interjecting constantly? That would be unmusical.

I remember listening to a grad student's electronic music compositions a few years ago...literally static. No tonality. it was puzzling.

Neil talks about the commonality of language and drumming, FZ did as well. We look for familiar patterns and then decide those are things we like and are pleasing to us, and are therefore musical. We like repetition, I find musical playing has some layer of repetition. Piano phrasing repeats, as do most musical instruments. A musical composition is typically not one long slog through endless notes. There is tension and resolution in the best.

It takes facility on the instrument to be able to handle those concepts, certainly. We play a instrument with limited potentiality for melodic phrasing. People talk about playing melodies on drums, but that's not just banging out Mary Had a Little Lamb. How do we get past the simple phrasing into something at the next level...

We can turn to music theory for some answers to these questions...

Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_phrasing

"There are two schools of thought on phrasing," says flautist Nancy Toff: "one more intuitive, the other more analytical. The intuitive school uses a verbal model, equating the function of phrasing with that of punctuation in language. Thus, said Chopin to a student, 'He who phrases incorrectly is like a man who does not understand the language he speaks.'"

I think this riff/phrase is one of the most musical I've ever heard. It sticks in my head and I will find myself twisting it around and humming it. It's got groove, weirdness, and the notes work well with each other. Perhaps if drummers think like a guitarist it would give us some insight to musicality.

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langmick
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Re: Musicality

Postby langmick » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:34 pm

Is this solo musical? Does it fit within the contest of this concert, and the jams? Mitch was carving new stone back then.



This solo is super musical imo. He uses some phrases that are so tight and cool. The way he plays and works around his fills is so musical, hidden yet apparent.

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langmick
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Re: Musicality

Postby langmick » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:39 pm

Check out how Omar plays this tune.

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langmick
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Re: Musicality

Postby langmick » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:46 pm

Another one with Omar. His playing is what we would call musical. Listen to how his fills work, how his grooves move along in the music. His coordination is incredible, and his groove using it is supernatural.

This era of WR is pretty groovy.

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langmick
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Re: Musicality

Postby langmick » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:01 pm

Trilok sets things up is incredible, and the way moves the other musicians around is such a subtle way.

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Pocketplayer
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Re: Musicality

Postby Pocketplayer » Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:12 pm

Trilok's right hand is sick...thing was on autopilot while he looked around to grab a toy!
McLaughlin looks a lot like Christopher Parkening in this clip. Bonzo had to be influenced
by that Mitchell solo!

Some nice Omar stuff here;
https://movingtheriver.com/2015/04/13/o ... -the-best/
Jeff Porcaro Groove Master
http://jeffporcaro.blogspot.com
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Odd-Arne Oseberg
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Re: Musicality

Postby Odd-Arne Oseberg » Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:29 am

Yeah. I've been listening to Gretchen Parlato a lot and and I'd take Kendrick over Mark any day. "Buttefly" is ok with him as well, though.

Again, like with Vinnie, it's about the dynamics and flow over what is really constant accenting. I don't mind unusual ones. I love that tension. There has to be variation, taste, life and sense to it.

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