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Interesting stuff RE music biz from Scott H

Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 2:16 am
by Steve Holmes
http://online-discussion.dhenderson.com ... php?t=1117

The stuff in the quote boxes is actually Scott's responses. Interesting stuff about stealing music, traveling, etc. It's so rough out there now for folks doing it full time. He's such a monster player, one of my favorites.

EDIT did some searching for "Weckl", yielded this funny story (although working with Chick sounds..interesting)
http://online-discussion.dhenderson.com ... ight=weckl

Re: Interesting stuff RE music biz from Scott H

Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 3:32 am
by sturla
Interesting stuff Scott posted there. And I see it originally is in fact a response to someone┬┤s comment/feeling about Allan Holdsworth┬┤s supposedly retirement!
Not sure what to think of THAT, but I sincerely hope that it was just a response he had to just having a tired/rough night/time due to all the travelling he has done these last years, and how hard it is just to survive in the business etc. I saw Allan play 4 gigs in London i June, and too me he sounded incredible as always!

Re: Interesting stuff RE music biz from Scott H

Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 9:02 am
by Clint Hopkins
Wow! I understand being irate but Holdsworth came unglued.

I attended a show with Jack DeJohnette and Bill Frisell in which Jack told Bill to tell everyone to quiet down.
The whole crowd was extremely noisy and Bill said something like, "We'll listen to you before we play the
next tune." Everyone chilled and that was that.

Re: Interesting stuff RE music biz from Scott H

Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 9:53 am
by deseipel
Steve Holmes wrote:http://online-discussion.dhenderson.com/ScottHenderson/viewtopic.php?t=1117

The stuff in the quote boxes is actually Scott's responses. Interesting stuff about stealing music, traveling, etc. It's so rough out there now for folks doing it full time. He's such a monster player, one of my favorites.

EDIT did some searching for "Weckl", yielded this funny story (although working with Chick sounds..interesting)
http://online-discussion.dhenderson.com ... ight=weckl


sometimes I wish I didn't read things like this about Chick. After reading this, and purchasing 'To the Stars' bullshit a few yrs ago; I doubt I'll buy any more of his albums. The thought that the money goes to his morally bankrupt pryamid scheme cult is the reason as well.

I totally agree with his stance on the 'downloading community'. It seems like the trend is going towards free; Radiohead, Trent Reznor, etc. There are movements to make stealing 'OK'; its become the norm and most kids probably don't think it's stealing.

But then there's no solution either. It seems like making an album is a sure way to LOSE money. Once it's online, you're in the red (it seems). Musicians now have to come up with ways of making moeny in lieu of their main product, which is their music. It's a shame.

The Intenet has done nothing but enabled this entire mess. Honestly, DRM was the way it should have went.

Some folks argue that giving away your music for free is a good way to promote your music. HUH? Anyone take economics? Open a bar and serve free beer. Loads of people will come and come back, but will they actually buy anything? In other words, it doesn't make sense to give away something so you can try to get them to buy something else. If we follow what some people say, we'd be giving away our music so we can sell them T shirts, hats and buttons.

With that logic, I should start making T-shirts, give them away for free and then actually charge for the CDs.

Re: Interesting stuff RE music biz from Scott H

Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 1:35 pm
by YamahaPlayer
That's a hard one. I agree downloading is in a sense "stealing", but lets be honest there's a TON more music that everyone would like to listen to then they can afford. Even at $1/song, my music library would cost around $100,000+, that's only around 1,000 albums.

Should I not be able to listen to music because I can't afford to buy everything I want to listen too?

What about music I need to learn for a gig? If I had to pay for songs I needed to learn where I wanted to listen to the tune, that would nullify the entire point of the gig!

*shrug* Just a kinda hard area there.

Seems pretty elitist to flat out say "If you can't buy it, you don't get to listen to it." Music is more then a product.

Let's keep in mind when he talks about making less per gig then 5 years ago, he's still talking about flying around Europe to get paid to play. Yes, being away from your family for a few weeks is a bummer, and a 7 hour layover is never that much fun.

But then again, you aren't working a 50 hour a week construction job either.

Re: Interesting stuff RE music biz from Scott H

Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 2:01 pm
by Lucas Ives
I don't even know where to start with that last post. Holy hell.

It sounds like you've never met anyone whose income was wholly dependent on the sale of their art.

Re: Interesting stuff RE music biz from Scott H

Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 3:20 pm
by deseipel
[quote="YamahaPlayer"]That's a hard one. I agree downloading is in a sense "stealing", but lets be honest there's a TON more music that everyone would like to listen to then they can afford. Even at $1/song, my music library would cost around $100,000+, that's only around 1,000 albums.

Should I not be able to listen to music because I can't afford to buy everything I want to listen too?

What about music I need to learn for a gig? If I had to pay for songs I needed to learn where I wanted to listen to the tune, that would nullify the entire point of the gig!

*shrug* Just a kinda hard area there.

Seems pretty elitist to flat out say "If you can't buy it, you don't get to listen to it." Music is more then a product.

quote]


There seems to be this dangerous perception among people that listening to music is a God given right; it's not. It's a priviledge that you get when you pay for it.

Anytime someone is selling their music it's a product, sorry. It's more than that yes, but only after you've paid for it and listened to it. The emotions & feelings that we put towards music is itself, a precious thing. But it doesn't mean that just because we would love it with all our heart, that it should be free for the taking. People say they love their music collections, but they don't love it enough to pay for it.

Re: Interesting stuff RE music biz from Scott H

Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:20 pm
by DSOP
YamahaPlayer wrote:Seems pretty elitist to flat out say "If you can't buy it, you don't get to listen to it." Music is more then a product.


If we were all discussing this in the same physical room, I would hurt you. I would physically attack you. You would be bleeding and in a lot of pain. That is how mad your post has made me. Your complete ignorance and lack of any sense of right and wrong would be laughable if it weren't so utterly pathetic. If the future of music gets any worse, you and your ilk are completely to blame.

Now why don't you just go down to your local grocery store and walk out with a bunch of food without paying for it? After all, shouldn't you get to eat it even if you don't buy it?

And when you need to learn songs for a gig, why not tell the band leader to get you some charts? Better yet, just steal those online too. And then have fun at your gig, which you're probably going to play for free, since music has no apparent value in your world.

Re: Interesting stuff RE music biz from Scott H

Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:58 pm
by YamahaPlayer
DSOP wrote:
YamahaPlayer wrote:Seems pretty elitist to flat out say "If you can't buy it, you don't get to listen to it." Music is more then a product.


If we were all discussing this in the same physical room, I would hurt you. I would physically attack you. You would be bleeding and in a lot of pain. That is how mad your post has made me. Your complete ignorance and lack of any sense of right and wrong would be laughable if it weren't so utterly pathetic. If the future of music gets any worse, you and your ilk are completely to blame.



You would physically hurt someone for voicing their opinion? WOW, ok. I'll let that stand on it's own accord as you call someone else ignorant and lacking in any sense of right and wrong.



We already say, as a united world pretty much, that a broad form of education in sciences and arts should be free and made freely available to everyone.

Physical art, for the most part, can be viewed for free. In the case it does require money to see, such a museum entrance fee, they are all 100% non profit tax free entities. In this case I'm equating viewing a painting to listening to a song, little rough but still. The painter of the art is not getting a percentage of the viewers.

Let's also not forget, 100% of the music that has influenced our modern music, is free. Completely and utterly free, can be reproduced with out problem or copyright issue. The huge shoulders we ALL stand on as musicians is entirely royalty free public domain music.

For that matter, we can play other peoples songs, and as long as we pay a very SMALL fee, can charge and make any profit over that fee that we want.

The school I went to, as a student, you could copy at whim anything in their music library, which was extensive from classical to new releases. They even provided copying machines to aid the process.
There's no way in the world that the fee they pay for that license even remotely equates to what songs are sold for via iTunes or a physical CD.

So given particularly the last example, even the record companies are for music being (practically) free for students at least.

It should additionally be noted that almost all libraries in the US, and elsewhere, have CD's for checkout at the library. This again is 100% free and at least the libraries here, have everything from classical to new releases, 2010 major label releases. 'DSOP' might be a little upset to hear about that...

Re: Interesting stuff RE music biz from Scott H

Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 5:14 pm
by Lucas Ives
This doesn't even pass the straight face test. Most of the works of art on display in museums are either donated by or on loan by their rightful owners.

I create something and make it available for a fee. If you take it without paying that fee, you are stealing. The end.

There's no magic pixie dust that makes a musical recording different from anything else.

Once again, I posit you've never had to support yourself as a musician.