Triggering samples/Gavin?

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deseipel
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Triggering samples/Gavin?

Postby deseipel » Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:26 pm

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep04/articles/livesound.htm


I was researching sequencers and samplers and drum triggers when I came across this. Gavin's search for the best on-stage triggers.

Any update to this Gavin?
Have you found something better?


I'm interested in mixing up triggered samples with sequenced music. But the trick is I want control (moving to the next sequenced part) and it has to be 'in-time' (a la Ableton). There doesn't seem to be one hardware device that can do this? I don't know a lot about this stuff though. Everything has foot switch capability, but it's always for 'start', 'stop', nothing seems to offer control via trigger pads. Any help would be cool.

I've considered the laptop route, but it seems like overkill? And then you have to worry about the OS and the noise and ... isn't there hardware that does this outside of a laptop?
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Gavin Harrison
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Re: Triggering samples/Gavin?

Postby Gavin Harrison » Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:22 am

I gave up looking for a better solution - and I stopped trying to trigger in a live situation. Post production triggering is still something I occasionally do - mainly on the bass drum if I feel it needs it. The best thing I've found for that is the excellent Drumagog.

good luck
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Re: Triggering samples/Gavin?

Postby kaide » Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:50 am

I just tested my Yamaha DTXtreme III module, recorded from analog output and mic hitting the pad. I was quite surprised how fast it triggered.
I got 1- 1,5 millisecond delays between mic and output which is much better than my old Roland Td-10 (6 milliseconds). So i guess this would be quite good machine to trigger your bassdrum samples or toms. You can also upload your own samples to DTXtreme III.
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Re: Triggering samples/Gavin?

Postby Jim Richman » Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:27 pm

kaide wrote:I just tested my Yamaha DTXtreme III module, recorded from analog output and mic hitting the pad. I was quite surprised how fast it triggered.
I got 1- 1,5 millisecond delays between mic and output which is much better than my old Roland Td-10 (6 milliseconds). So i guess this would be quite good machine to trigger your bassdrum samples or toms. You can also upload your own samples to DTXtreme III.

You can also use drumagog live if you got the mikes. No need for an electronic brain if you have a nice laptop and drumagog or Drumtracker with Superior 2.0.
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Matus
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Re: Triggering samples/Gavin?

Postby Matus » Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:23 pm

I don't really get what you want to do exactly and that will actually determine if you need a laptop or not.
Are we talking about sequences as in pre-recorded audio tracks? Or just MIDI kind of sequences?
By "moving to the next sequenced part" you mean in the middle of the song or just being able to go to the next one?
And by triggering samples you mean as in electronic drum sounds?

Any combination of those will give you one answer or another because there are some things you can't do with a simple hardware unit. At least not all of them at once.
On a tour I'm starting now, we took the laptop away and started using a loop pedal. It has SD Card capability, so the musical director just made the pre-recorded stuff on protools and got it on the device. It's got a couple pedals and just enough outputs to give you a stereo track and a click track. On top of that we're using the Yamaha DTX Multi12, which has sampling capabilities. We took the actual e-drum samples from the protools session and play them live both on the actual DTX surfaces and through a bass drum trigger. It doesn't really need to be that accurate because they're just a punchy kind of thing to mix underneath my acoustic kick sound, but the latence is quite good.
I'll try to find out what loop device we're using. It may have the features you need.
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deseipel
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Re: Triggering samples/Gavin?

Postby deseipel » Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:43 pm

It's basically what Ableton can do:


group sequences (could be midi based or looped audio) and be able to trigger them via a pad. With Ableton, you can trigger groups so that they begin on the next downbeat as opposed to traditional triggers that play exactly when you hit the pad. This function basically controls the song, but also leaves it up to me to define how long each section would be. A good example would be if a soloist wanted 16 more bars; this gives you the option to do that.

That's probably a tall order for hardware, so I'll just leave it at that. it's a lot more than just triggering samples, it's more about controlling a sequence via a trigger pad. I have a Boss JS-5 that will sort of do this now, except I'd need a footswitch instead of a trigger pad. I was looking for something a bit better.
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Re: Triggering samples/Gavin?

Postby Matus » Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:34 am

Cool then :) Just for the record, this is what we're using:
http://www.digitech.com/products/Pedals/JamMan.php
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Re: Triggering samples/Gavin?

Postby Matus » Sat Oct 23, 2010 7:00 am

Ok, I've been playing around with the M12 and it can reproduce audio loops and MIDI patterns. You can assign them to triggers within a user kit. So if I was to use short loops (I think the limit is 1MB long but I'd have to look it up on the manual), I'd upload them separately, then assign each one of them to the pads (there are up to 12 zones, plus extra inputs). I think you can play with the pad functions so each one cancels the previous sounding sequence. You could also use a pad or a foot switch to go to the next user kit so you have more than 12 options.
Now, I watched Johny Rabb doing a Roland demo with the SPDS and it was very impressive. Perhaps it has more sample room on it. It all depends on the lentgh of the loops you want to use.
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Re: Triggering samples/Gavin?

Postby deseipel » Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:53 am

aweseome. just to clarify, you're talking about the yamaha dtx multipad?

cool, except that it's 700 USD. looks like I'll saving.
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Re: Triggering samples/Gavin?

Postby Matus » Sat Oct 23, 2010 5:21 pm

Yeah, the DTX Multi12. You can check the manual out here:
http://www.yamahasynth.com/downloads/manuals
Take a look at it for the actual specs. There are also videos.
I think the SPDS is cheaper but I'm not familiar with the sample lengths and that stuff.
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