Jeff Porcaro: isolated "Beat It" track

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nomsgmusic
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Re: Jeff Porcaro: isolated "Beat It" track

Postby nomsgmusic » Sat Oct 23, 2010 12:06 pm

There is A LOT to be learned from this track, firstly thanks for the person who posted it.

Listen to how low the drum track is mixed on the recording (you could almost not realize it's there,) and how high the machine is mixed, interesting. Yet, Jeff's part still has so strong of an affect on the total feel of the tune. Yet, what he is playing is EXACTLY the same (notes) as the machine (except for the crashes.) Jeff's attack is very consistent, his notes are the same as the program, there are no fills, and no super obvious groove element to what he is playing (what I call a thumbprint.) So WHAT is it exactly that we bring to the table? (The answer that you choose to give here could teach you a lot about yourself as a musician.)

Could Quincy just have changed the drum sounds to make them fatter? Sure. But he didn't, he felt that the humanity that a real musician playing (almost exactly) what the machine was playing would set the tune off (although the real drums would still be mixed really low,) GENIUS!

In fact when the pattern is playing alone in the intro, it's JUST the machine. Most of us would think that for the part of the tune where the drums are soloed (the intro,) you "would-should" want both parts, right? That makes sense, but not here. Jeff's drums kick in AFTER the intro, interesting..... What is a great lesson in producing, arranging, crafting a recording of a tune.

On the drum side. Try taping yourself doing exactly what Jeff was asked to do here. Set up a (simple) pattern on a machine, run it through some sort of PA, and through some phones, and tape yourself playing along with it for 5 mins. I do this with students A LOT. No fills, a few crashes, and play (virtually) THE SAME "beat" as the program, maybe change some sounds (again as Jeff did,) but (here's the kicker) add some excitement (like Jeff did here.) Listen back, and learn about yourself. This track is a lot more than "burying the click."

Getting back to Jeff. Listen to the internal balance of Jeff's drumming. Listen to the hi hats and the ebb and flow of the sounds, listen to his bell sound, listen to his crash sounds (and the choice of sounds.) Finally, listen to how relaxed the TIME feels, it's just flowing effortlessly forward; transparent, calm, and strong, like water.

There are SO many lessons in these isolated tracks. They are probably the only thing I REALLY listen to on youtube.

MSG
[url][/url]bluejayrecords.com/drumatic
[url][/url]vicfirth.com/artists/mark_griffith.html
Suspiria
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Re: Jeff Porcaro: isolated "Beat It" track

Postby Suspiria » Sat Oct 23, 2010 1:48 pm

Sounds so simple, doesn't it. Yet so unbelievably hard to play...Awesome stuff.
Clint Hopkins
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Re: Jeff Porcaro: isolated "Beat It" track

Postby Clint Hopkins » Sat Oct 23, 2010 2:35 pm

I really love stuff like this. Man, Jeff just nails it. At that tempo that groove could really get out of control; not with Jeff. It kills me how consistent guys like him are. Nice stuff.
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Re: Jeff Porcaro: isolated "Beat It" track

Postby Rodge » Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:02 pm

nomsgmusic wrote:There is A LOT to be learned from this track, firstly thanks for the person who posted it.

Listen to how low the drum track is mixed on the recording (you could almost not realize it's there,) and how high the machine is mixed, interesting. Yet, Jeff's part still has so strong of an affect on the total feel of the tune. Yet, what he is playing is EXACTLY the same (notes) as the machine (except for the crashes.) Jeff's attack is very consistent, his notes are the same as the program, there are no fills, and no super obvious groove element to what he is playing (what I call a thumbprint.) So WHAT is it exactly that we bring to the table? (The answer that you choose to give here could teach you a lot about yourself as a musician.)

Could Quincy just have changed the drum sounds to make them fatter? Sure. But he didn't, he felt that the humanity that a real musician playing (almost exactly) what the machine was playing would set the tune off (although the real drums would still be mixed really low,) GENIUS!

In fact when the pattern is playing alone in the intro, it's JUST the machine. Most of us would think that for the part of the tune where the drums are soloed (the intro,) you "would-should" want both parts, right? That makes sense, but not here. Jeff's drums kick in AFTER the intro, interesting..... What is a great lesson in producing, arranging, crafting a recording of a tune.

On the drum side. Try taping yourself doing exactly what Jeff was asked to do here. Set up a (simple) pattern on a machine, run it through some sort of PA, and through some phones, and tape yourself playing along with it for 5 mins. I do this with students A LOT. No fills, a few crashes, and play (virtually) THE SAME "beat" as the program, maybe change some sounds (again as Jeff did,) but (here's the kicker) add some excitement (like Jeff did here.) Listen back, and learn about yourself. This track is a lot more than "burying the click."

Getting back to Jeff. Listen to the internal balance of Jeff's drumming. Listen to the hi hats and the ebb and flow of the sounds, listen to his bell sound, listen to his crash sounds (and the choice of sounds.) Finally, listen to how relaxed the TIME feels, it's just flowing effortlessly forward; transparent, calm, and strong, like water.

There are SO many lessons in these isolated tracks. They are probably the only thing I REALLY listen to on youtube.

MSG


Yeah sure, in the same time how could you go wrong with Quincy, Bruce Swedien, Jeff Porcaro ? I hear what you say, in the same I prefer to see things in a more simple/natural/animal way.

It's like JR nailing his first session with a click track : : "Hey, did you hear the click track ? No. Ok perfect !!!" :D

Jeff gives the meat on "Beat It", and more than that, that's why we call these kind of musicians.
I come from Tain, Vinnie, Omar, Jeff, Fish, Stewart, and many more...
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nomsgmusic
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Re: Jeff Porcaro: isolated "Beat It" track

Postby nomsgmusic » Sat Oct 23, 2010 4:23 pm

I hear ya' Rodge. When I PLAY or PERFORM, I HAVE TO (and prefer to) think in a MUCH less analystic way (more "animal" as I think you put it.) However, when I REALLY want to learn about something, or when I really want to convey (teach about) an idea or concept, I have found that that "animal" approach usually doesn't work. Years ago I really wasn't able to turn either side off, and it cost me some gigs (too analytical,) and some teaching opportunities (not verbal or analytical enough.) Now through some heightened "self awareness," I have found a few "internal triggers" that allow me to turn either side off or on, and relate to the musicians around me in the way that suits THEM!!!! This has also allowed me to absorb (and play) music (and play and relate to other musicians) in either a very "right brained," or a very "left brained" way, depending on the company I am keeping. Strangely enough, I have met Quincy a few times and had some nice talks with him, and he is sort of the same way. (NOTE, I am not in any way comparing myself to Quincy Jones!!!!! But I did learn a lot from talking to him.) However, the best stuff is still felt by both sides simutaneously, but MORE importantly by the heart and the soul. Dig?

You can't un-ring the bell,
Mark
[url][/url]bluejayrecords.com/drumatic
[url][/url]vicfirth.com/artists/mark_griffith.html
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Terry Branam
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Re: Jeff Porcaro: isolated "Beat It" track

Postby Terry Branam » Mon Oct 25, 2010 2:16 pm

Jeff was the man. I love this vid as well:

Check out my app PERFECT RHYTHM on the App store!
Andrew<3'sVinnie
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Re: Jeff Porcaro: isolated "Beat It" track

Postby Andrew<3'sVinnie » Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:12 pm

nomsgmusic wrote:I hear ya' Rodge. When I PLAY or PERFORM, I HAVE TO (and prefer to) think in a MUCH less analystic way (more "animal" as I think you put it.) However, when I REALLY want to learn about something, or when I really want to convey (teach about) an idea or concept, I have found that that "animal" approach usually doesn't work. Years ago I really wasn't able to turn either side off, and it cost me some gigs (too analytical,) and some teaching opportunities (not verbal or analytical enough.) Now through some heightened "self awareness," I have found a few "internal triggers" that allow me to turn either side off or on, and relate to the musicians around me in the way that suits THEM!!!! This has also allowed me to absorb (and play) music (and play and relate to other musicians) in either a very "right brained," or a very "left brained" way, depending on the company I am keeping. Strangely enough, I have met Quincy a few times and had some nice talks with him, and he is sort of the same way. (NOTE, I am not in any way comparing myself to Quincy Jones!!!!! But I did learn a lot from talking to him.) However, the best stuff is still felt by both sides simutaneously, but MORE importantly by the heart and the soul. Dig?

You can't un-ring the bell,
Mark


i enjoyed the analysis and appreciated the nuanced insight. i think it's helpful and interesting, both from an intellectual perspective and for someone who isn't so naturally gifted on the drums.
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mikebxb
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Re: Jeff Porcaro: isolated "Beat It" track

Postby mikebxb » Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:05 pm

Terry Branam wrote:Jeff was the man. I love this vid as well:




whats the exact sticking/footing on the fill 1:55?
R L R L FF
R L R L FF

or RL RLRF, RLRLRF?
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Terry Branam
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Re: Jeff Porcaro: isolated "Beat It" track

Postby Terry Branam » Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:41 pm

Hey mikebxb,

Here's what I think it is:



s Fill.jpg
s Fill.jpg (81.29 KiB) Viewed 7776 times
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mikebxb
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Re: Jeff Porcaro: isolated "Beat It" track

Postby mikebxb » Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:57 pm

Terry Branam wrote:Hey mikebxb,

Here's what I think it is:



s Fill.jpg


thanks terry! looks right to me. I haven ran "amazing slow downer" yet to see if were missing a doubled kick with the L crash at end.. but i bet , once again your right.

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