A few words on time & relating to it...

[DSOP]

I found the following on Robert Fripp's website. I'm not sure that he wrote it, but my guess is that he did.

http://www.robertfripp.com/diaries.htm?entry=18337

A few words on time & relating to it...


The musician has three disciplines: the hands, the head & the heart. Each of us tends to be more functionally disposed towards one more than the others (and in some cases two of these, in which case the third centre is referred to as under-developed). Some players are more naturally centred in their hands, and by extension their bodies; some are more in their hearts, and by extension their feelings; and some are located in the head: these are the more intellectual or cerebrally oriented players.

So, we have three primary ways of relating to time: through the body, through the feelings & through the head. Our experiencing of time, from each of these perspectives, is different.

Good time is primarily in the body; connecting & playing to the fundamental pulse of any piece of music is through the body.

Music is a quality organized in sound & in time (and may also be understood as a way of shaping Silence). The quality of music is eternal, but the forms of organization adopted for musical expression vary from culture to culture, and from time to time. In that part of Western popular culture, in the genre known as rock music, c. 1973 in the United States, one way of relating to fundamental pulse was known as laid back. The drummer, while maintaining fundamental pulse, placed their snare beat at the back end, or slightly behind, the top or centre of the beat. This, without the pulse slowing or deviating: not metronomic & fixed, but good time. In punk c. 1976-77 in London, the accent was right on top of the beat, with tempi characteristically faster. These, two examples of experiencing time primarily through & in the body.

Those more seated in their emotions, and disposed to gush in their emotional lives, in their relating-to-time will tend towards rubato. In a singer, the accompanist will be prepared for colla voce.

Performers centred in their head will tend to play ahead of the beat & move around it. Sample listening to the standard repertoire of violin concerti & its soloists will reveal much movement around the beat, particularly in passages of allegro & presto. To anyone who has ever played for dancing, or those experiencing time in their bodies, this is poor time.

Three notions of the process of music unfolding: time, timing, and time ordered or organized. Time – relating to fundamental pulse & its rate of flow (tempo) is primarily in the body. Timing - the stressing of legal discontinuities in the placement of the note around the beat in response to feeling what is right - is primarily in the heart. The organization & ordering of the sequence of unfolding flow, through time signatures & bars, is primarily in the head.

One standard GC suggestion as to how we might improve our time, is to put up posters – Dance In The Village Hall On Saturday Night! – and place bowls of overripe fruit near the entrance. Those intent on dancing tend to be unforgiving towards those who upset their enjoyment with bad time.

[Isaac Lee]

One standard GC suggestion as to how we might improve our time, is to put up posters – Dance In The Village Hall On Saturday Night! – and place bowls of overripe fruit near the entrance. Those intent on dancing tend to be unforgiving towards those who upset their enjoyment with bad time.

Haha. Interesting read!

[Phil T.]

Yes, that's Fripp's writing all right. Thanks for posting!

[Henry II]

I prefer Buddy's approach to time. "You keep my time and you'll be ok. You don't, and you're outta here," or words to that effect.

[YamahaPlayer]

American music being so young, and music itself (percussion) being so old. It's hard to say. Like above, Buddy laid it down.

Plenty of drummers are world famous, and will be influential far beyond their deaths, who have or had what we would call - bad time. But it grooved, and that's what counts.

Some music loves to be rushed, some music loves to drag, some music loves to be dead on time, some music loves to be sloppy or greasy. It's more a matter (IMO) of being the chameleon then being the metronome.

As a bumper sticker I saw today so efficiently put - Drum machines have no soul.

[Rhythmatist]

[quote="YamahaPlayer"

Some music loves to be rushed, some music loves to drag, some music loves to be dead on time, some music loves to be sloppy or greasy. It's more a matter (IMO) of being the chameleon then being the metronome.

As a bumper sticker I saw today so efficiently put - Drum machines have no soul.[/quote]

That's how I feel. I stopped trying to shove time up a band's ass a long time ago and have adjusted to their tendencies. It boils down to individuals within a band. I play with a 7 piece unit regularly. There can be a lot of variance, especially when certain people get excited and depending on the type of tune it can be downright difficult to keep the rest of the guys from following right along. But rather than complaining and finger-pointing I've learned to compensate for individuals' tendencies to rush and have developed the ability to slightly relax where I place the time in order to keep things on a more even keel. I think my college big-band experience helped with that although it went the other direction. Rhythm section instruments respond immediately; saxophones were usually pretty close followed by the trumpet section that lagged just a hair. Trombones, because of the longer tubing and wider diameter need a great deal of air moving through them to produce sound. If they hit a note at the same time as the piano their sound will be slightly late. So, in those cases I would play slightly on top to keep things from getting bogged down. Drummers need to be aware of these things in order to keep the temporal peace in the band without going nuts and being a complete Time Nazi.

[Steve Holmes]

Interesting read - thanks for sharing.
Body movement is something I always noticed about Gadd. He almost reminds me of a muppet when he plays, but not in a funny way. Just that he's moving his whole body often while playing, even when it's not necessary. Clearly it's a big contributor to his time and feel.

[YamahaPlayer]

Interesting read - thanks for sharing.
Body movement is something I always noticed about Gadd. He almost reminds me of a muppet when he plays, but not in a funny way. Just that he's moving his whole body often while playing, even when it's not necessary. Clearly it's a big contributor to his time and feel.

That and the dashiki! But really, I always figured he moved around like that cause of the heavy drug use. For pete's sake the guy's picture on DrummerWorld has a 1/2" thick joint on the table. The "Up Close" video he's so blasted it's not even funny.

I remember being at a clinic long ago and the drummer (can't remember who) was taking about using larger motions with slower tempos to help.

Then again, I think it'd be fair to say most of the upper chops master players don't utilize any of these types of techniques.

[Isaac Lee]

That's how I feel. I stopped trying to shove time up a band's ass a long time ago and have adjusted to their tendencies. It boils down to individuals within a band. I play with a 7 piece unit regularly. There can be a lot of variance, especially when certain people get excited and depending on the type of tune it can be downright difficult to keep the rest of the guys from following right along. But rather than complaining and finger-pointing I've learned to compensate for individuals' tendencies to rush and have developed the ability to slightly relax where I place the time in order to keep things on a more even keel. I think my college big-band experience helped with that although it went the other direction. Rhythm section instruments respond immediately; saxophones were usually pretty close followed by the trumpet section that lagged just a hair. Trombones, because of the longer tubing and wider diameter need a great deal of air moving through them to produce sound. If they hit a note at the same time as the piano their sound will be slightly late. So, in those cases I would play slightly on top to keep things from getting bogged down. Drummers need to be aware of these things in order to keep the temporal peace in the band without going nuts and being a complete Time Nazi.

This was profound for me. Thank you for sharing. In my own own effort to develop good time and metronomic consistency I find myself becoming just as critical of the musicians I play with as if I was watching a video of my own drumming. Tempo issues often times can turn into a blame game and I think a healthy amount of discretion is necessary. I like the idea of playing in way that helps rather than creating further issues as you stated.

Now the other side of this coin, in my humble opinion, is that we as musicians collectively should strive for great timing. When everyone is very aware of the time and is all in the same "pocket" together, then that is the ideal. Big bands on the other hand might be a whole diff. beast!

[smoggrocks]

my main background is dance, and that's how i've always related to music--through the body. i feel and express music physically. i've been told i have a nice pocket, and i think that comes from dance. but when i'm really trying to work out subdivisiony/coordination stuff, my time wavers a lot, coz i'm thinking and organizing. and if i don't play for a while, my timing blows.

i think a lot of people overthink time. basically, when you're really listening and internalizing music and you get a good feeling in your gut, chances are your time is pretty solid. that's how i see it, anyway.


i loves me that crafty frippman.