Help with attaining buzz rolls at a gig...

[john lamb]

@ Joe N- I wish I could turn my brain off when it comes to playing! Don't get me wrong, I can totally just turn off and feel for the entire night, but the next day I start replaying/analyzing what I did so I can learn from it.

That's precisely what you want! But of course, if you carry any of that analysis to the gig it'll kill ya.

Seems to me there are 3 things that could be the issue
(1) The drum
(2) Your buzz technique
(3) You're thinking about your buzz technique while your playing

IMO i doubt its #1. if Andy V's description of crushing in then immediately backing off doesn't ring bells, then go to step 2. If it does, then go to step 3 + allow your ears to imagine the sound. www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hp90TPUos34

[DeeP_FRieD]

From my time in the university system, when i had my orchestral snare chops revamped by my teacher, I retained a few nuggets.

First off, they be called multiple bounce rolls now.

There are many schools of thought here. The first university I went to, the teacher's thing was letting the stick bounce as much as possible, while being consistent in note space of course. He said if you're doing a 5 stroke as a multiple bounce, you should be able to take out the left hand and have it still sound the same, meaning the hands overlap each other.

The next university I went to had 2 teachers, one preached the above method the other talked about the amount of bounces:

Also as one considers metering the hands due to tempo, like playing 5's or sixteenth notes, one should meter the amount of bounces to the dynamic. He suggested 3 bounces for forte and above. Mixed with metering the hands, this can take a multiple bounce roll to the next level. I currently use both techniques depending on what is musically need... before a solo chorus in a jazz tune, I get as many bounces as I can ala Elvin. In a more orchestral I setting I try to be conscious of how many bounces I am pulling off as to not mud up the flow.

Classical cats spend hours working on this stuff and then use something like a Delecluse etude to implement it... Delecluse is the serious read if you're into it.

[Gaddabout]

@ Gaddabout- I had never understood what a check pattern was until your example (and looking up some notation); it really opened my eyes up for improving!

If it helps to defeat discouragement, a buzz roll over a sextuplet check pattern is not easy. It's very difficult to control the bounces and transition smoothly stick-to-stick at that rate of exchange. More than likely you're going to get a lot of unwanted "pulsing" at first until you can get more measured bounces in between strokes. It's going to take some time to work that out. The instinct for most drummers, if they have any proper training in their background, is to play a sixteenth-note pattern under all rolls, but as I think you're finding it doesn't always fit!

[Gerry]

I don't think this has been mentioned so far, but the early New Orleans drummers used to draw their sticks down (and sometimes across) the drum head, literally dragging out the roll (I'm talking about crush rolls here). The momentum that this dragging motion produced facilitated longer rolls - a bit like skimming a stone across the water - and also enabled quieter rolls (don't need to hit the head so hard). Worth practicing (for me, it definitely makes crush rolls easier to play).

All the first generation New Orleans guys played rolls like that, as well as many of the swing guys. Herlin Riley puts the technique to good use in his New Orleans Drumming DVD.

[Gaddabout]

I don't think this has been mentioned so far, but the early New Orleans drummers used to draw their sticks down (and sometimes across) the drum head, literally dragging out the roll (I'm talking about crush rolls here). The momentum that this dragging motion produced facilitated longer rolls - a bit like skimming a stone across the water - and also enabled quieter rolls (don't need to hit the head so hard). Worth practicing (for me, it definitely makes crush rolls easier to play).

All the first generation New Orleans guys played rolls like that, as well as many of the swing guys. Herlin Riley puts the technique to good use in his New Orleans Drumming DVD.

That is very cool! But, IMO, you learn this technique if you want to play New Orleans' style second-line marches on the snare. You're getting different sounds as you move around the head, and the generally preferred sound (as in this song) is playing them center head. The technique you mention is one technique -- and fun -- but it's a separate tool in the buzz roll toolbox, IMO.

[Josiah]

mmm truth! I do drag my buzz strokes a bit, for the long ones anyway part of the difference in the short and long. i doubt 1" of movement really makes for a perspective difference in sound to the audience or mics though.

[Rene]

Didn't read all post before posting ... If some points have made by others .... sorry
I'm experimenting with buzz rolls more often lately ....

One thing that helps is "smoothness in execution". An evenly bounce with both hands is an issue to focus on.... As exercise I let the sticks bounce simeltaneously. Secondly, I'm not always subdividing it, but I keep time in my head or on the hihat. If it feels natural to subdivide it, I'll do that.

The motion of the hands is important as well to get the even bounces. Ed Shaughnessy explained it in this video:
http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/edshaughnessywhipcreamroll.html

Rene

[Jim Richman]

Just play as fast and buzzy as possible. Don't count your strokes or play in any rate.

[Josiah]

forgot to add having a good grasp on the french roll will help tremendously