Help with attaining buzz rolls at a gig...

[samnmax203]

Hey everybody,

I've come across a new puzzle for me at gigs lately, trying to find the sweet spot for snare buzz rolls. I play in a cover band that plays everything from Alanis Morissette to Frank Zappa, and I try to pay attention to the sounds of my drums for each song/style. Sometimes I'll have 2 snares (one tuned high and the other low), but most of the time I have just one with me and use a t-shirt or cymbal on top of a drum, change tuning between songs, etc. to get a close approximation of the sound. My goto snare for the past 2 years has been the Pearl Virgil Donati - 5.5x14 birch/maple with a rounded top bearing edge, and a symphonic snare bed on the bottom. It's really responsive, sounds great low, mid, or bright and tight, and has a great feel. While playing Zac Brown Band's "Chicken Fried" there is a bridge section that features some nice marching buzz rolls and I feel like I've had difficulty nailing them.

Jump to 2:45 for the bridge area... (STEVE: is there a way to add in the #t= markers for the youtube embed feature?)


I've noticed that my snare is typically too tight/staccato sounding to get that nice phat spread that he has on the record. I tend to loosen the snare strainer a little bit and play the buzz strokes off center around the 9 and 3 position to get more buzz. I use Steve Smith's tip of letting the rebounds round out a little bit to get more buzz, but I'm still not feeling it! The sound I hear in my head isn't coming out; I record myself and it sounds ok, but I think we all have those moments were the gig isn't comfortable and you want to fix it for next time. I wouldn't mind retuning my snare for (almost) every song, but we try to keep time between songs to a minimum. Any suggestions out there?

Thanks!

[chris perra]

Listening to the Zack Brown track their snare is pretty fat sounding... I'd try and get some puresound snares,.. or something darker sounding and more responsive than the stock ones that come with most snares..... Go for a medium tuning on the top and bottom skins, and tighten the snares till they almost choke out a stroke.. then back off a turn or two... depending on the response.. This might work.. the track sounds like a deeper snare dimension wise than your Donati is.. Good snare response usually requires fairly tight skins and his rolls don't sound sloppy like you would hear on a low tuned snare. Makes me think he's using a 8 inch wood tuned normally..

Also the sound he's getting has alot of room air to it,.. from where you are sitting you won't get the snare vibe especially from a dry type snare like a Donati.

You'd have to be able to combine overhead, room, top and bottom mics to get the same sound.. You're hearing 1'4 to half of the snare sound you're actually creating, depending on the room you are in and how much you get back from the walls.

I also hear a fair amount of compression on the snare.. that helps give it a roundess that you can't get live in most cases....

Good luck

[Gaddabout]

One of the tricks to a good buzz roll is practicing to different check patterns -- eighth notes, eighth-note triplets, sixteenths, sextuplets. And when someone tells me they're having problems reproducing the sound of a buzz roll, the check pattern is the first thing I listen for. In this case it's a tight sextuplet buzz roll -- you can hear a very slight pulsing of the right hand in the roll to pick it up. So my suggestion is to practice playing sextuplets at that medium dynamic followed by buzz rolls with a sextuplet check pattern. I think you'll find you need to press in more and not need as much rebound as the roll might initially suggest.

Concert snare drummers have the best buzz rolls, and the best of the guys ... you NEVER hear pulsing in their press rolls. It's like a magic trick. Some of them couldn't play an open stroke roll to save their lives, but they can crush like no one else.

[Jim Richman]

Buzz rolls are in essence triple stroke rolls when played up to tempo. Play the roll in a 16th note triplet rate and it should work.
Don't listen to Steve Smith, he is a regurgitator.

PLAY it. Don't wait for the magical sticks to do things for you. They won't. YOU need to make the sticks do it. Don't pray, just play.

And Gaddabout, you need to substitute Time Rate for check pattern. Unless you want to alternate the roll phrase with a measure of 16 triplets in between.

[Joe Nocella]

Concert snare drummers have the best buzz rolls, and the best of the guys ... you NEVER hear pulsing in their press rolls. It's like a magic trick. Some of them couldn't play an open stroke roll to save their lives, but they can crush like no one else.

I used to play in a community concert band at the local college. There was this old guy there. He couldn't play set to save his life, but his crush roll would put me on the floor every time!!!!

To the OP's point. I think you are being too analytical in this instance. Remember, what the drums sounds like and what you are "feeling" is completely different from what the listener perceives. The fact that you are involved in actually producing the sound automatically skews your perception of what it sounds like to the audience.

I like Matt's advice...work on your crush rolls. Use the check patterns as a tool. At the end of the day, just do it...I'm sure what you're playing is a close approximation based on the other statements you made.

Cheers, Joe

[Kurtis]

i feel your pain with buzz strokes. there comes a time when you just have to practice them. have admired dave weckls buzz stroke for decades. having a circular head on the drum stick helps out the cause. 5B's and the like don't. practicing on the snare is best. i have my snares on medium to tight. somewhere in between i guess. shouldn't matter about the drum or the snares. it's about the person playing them. get them even at all volumes. gives the hand muscles a good work out. practice going from doubles to buzz strokes. going from a buzz stroke to blazing doubles to start out a tune or whatever can be very dynamic.

[Josiah]

think of lifting the stick more then pushing it, and again work the various note values. try to get as many notes as possible, 4 or 5+ per stroke and if you additionally overlap them, all the better. it's the transitions from hand to hand that seem to cause most the issues.
practice both staccato buzzes and long buzzes, control is the game

see how many notes you can get in a controlled manor from a single stroke. also if you have access to a marching snare, or a laminate pad, practice on those, kitchen counter does the job too. if you can get the paper tearing sound on a kevy head or other hard surface, you'll smoke on a normal snare

[Andy Vermiglio]

Great topic!

For buzz rolls, be sure to situate the snare bed so that it runs from your throne to the shell tom. Play the roll a few inches in from the 12 o'clock position (so you're playing right over the snare bed).

Practice playing buzzes one hand at a time. Press the stick into the head very firmly and then immediately back off in order to let the stick vibrate. Play this very slowly and go for a big fat buzz in each hand. Practice playing slowly with very long buzzes.

I recorded my buzz roll. When the recording is slowed down, you can hear consistently 5 to 7 rebounds per hand. This results in a nice smooth sounding buzz roll.

[samnmax203]

Thanks for all the ideas everyone!

@ Chris P- Definitely noticed a big difference when I switched to Puresounds on this drum a few months ago! Sometimes I'll have a 6.5x14 bubinga tuned mid/mid-low and I'll goto that during the bridge. I think I'll have to just have my main snare tuned more mid-range to get a closer approximation. I appreciate your ears in trying to decipher that "studio sound," and I've really tried to understand the sound perspective of the audience. I guess I'll just have to go with it

@ Gaddabout- I had never understood what a check pattern was until your example (and looking up some notation); it really opened my eyes up for improving!

@ Jim R- What's the difference between Time Rate and check patterns? Aren't the check patterns essentially acting as a definition of the time rate?

@ Joe N- I wish I could turn my brain off when it comes to playing! Don't get me wrong, I can totally just turn off and feel for the entire night, but the next day I start replaying/analyzing what I did so I can learn from it.

@ Kurtis- You're totally right! I was listening to Andy Fisenden wail on some great buzz strokes today, and I remembered that he plays on a super tight little piccolo snare! Time for the shed!

@ Josiah- When you say lift the stick, do you mean not squashing the rebound? It's weird, on a practice pad (hard side) and other such surfaces I get a suitable, controlled response. When I get to the gig I don't know if it's the perceived sound, but my buzz just doesn't have the carry (volume-wise) nor the articulation I'm expecting. It's probably the room I'm in, but it still messes with my head. Kind of like if I can't feel it then it's wrong...

@ Andy V- I had always been told to have the snares running perpendicular to the tom, as you would be playing over more snare wire than not. I'll have to experiment now

[Josiah]

like all things, the relaxation and letting the stick do the work, drawing the sound out of the drum, etc

here's a great text (and exercises) that should get your buzz chops rockin http://www.vicfirth.com/artists/queen/T ... cerpts.pdf