Dry or singing drums?

[Tom Reschke]

I just listened to the intro lick to Avenue D by Tooch with Vinnie, and it is awesome. But I noticed (again, on my 20 dollar computer speakers) that the drum sound was very dry. Or muffled. Kinda like that late 70's Gadd sound. Or late 80's Vinnie sound, but whatever. My point is, is that I think I like the way drums sound when you're beating the shit out of them when they are really muffled. As opposed to say, Keith Carlock, who usually tunes very open and ringy, and also hits really hard (just as an example, I love his playing by the waaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy).
More often than not, on gigs here in Nashville, I will use an old Slingerland snare with an Evans HD dry head and a really muffled bass drum with super dry jazz cymbals so that I can beat the shit out of them without being obnoxious to the rest of the guys on stage. I've played in the past with brighter cymbals and a Black Beauty cranked with a one ply head and been chided for playing too loud.
For me, I need to hit the drums. Hard. Within reason, of course, but I need to be able to physically attack the instrument when it's musically appropriate without pissing off my band mates.
There has been a real push by the drum companies to make instruments that sing, and I love that in theory. But even though I love playing soft jazz and trying to burn at low volumes, I am mostly hitting drums hard with 5B's. And feeling really good about it. Whaddya think? Pinstripes with duct tape, or G1's al fresco?

[Riddim]

What is most important to you - hitting the drums hard, or playing the music really well?

Go from there.

[electrizer]

My favorite config is the good ol' G2 over G1, which allows the drums to sing but without that ringing. But if I was to choose between two extremes I would lean towards fully singing drums. If I wanted dry, muffled sound I would go for carton boxes - much cheaper

[bclarkio]

I think the sound I have in my head is shaped mostly by what I grew up with, listening to a lot of old music, and playing a lot of old drums.

It is not very bright or resonant; it is instead dark and warm.

[Josiah]

you can hit hard without being loud. and you can be loud without hitting hard. the two are not mutually exclusive.

[circh bustom]

I have recently changed my focus to tuning really low and not hitting very hard. The recent thread on tuning with a link to Bruce Wittet's article was the catalyst. I used to crank my heads and hit hard, shredding sticks like mad. I found that the drums sounded great to me but 7 feet away they sounded as different as could be. I have found that a low tuned drum will still ring a bit, but the sound, tone and tuning of the drum will be more in your face so to speak. And by that I mean it is well projected to the audience. That being said, in 15 years of gigging, there is no one way that always works. I will add some muffling if Im close mic'ed, but if it is no mics or just distance mics, they are set where I like em. I use a touch of gaffer tape bunched up no matter what. Its just what i like. I have really lightened up my touch too, sound seems a little fatter. Then when i need it, I know i have that extra headroom. As for the kick drum, after seeing Questlove live in the studio with Jimmy Fallon I was shocked. My wife and i were in the front row just left of the kit. ?love barely touched the beater to the head of his 18" drum. It was massive.
I know Glen Kotche from Wilco followed your same philosophy. I understand your need to physically hit the drums hard, but with the types of cymbals you mentioned, they are most likely the most expensive high end models from the company. Using them for something other than their intended purpose might lead to very expensive practice room cymbals.

[Julián Fernández]

you can hit hard without being loud.

Really? Please elaborate...

[Jim Richman]

you can hit hard without being loud.

Really? Please elaborate...

It's all relative. If you do gig with a deaf bass player/sound guy who cranks his vocals up 15 db more than everything else; And cranks his bass amp up. Playing at a small dive bar with a 1500 watt PA. Turns the mains half way up at the start. Searing the ear drums and flesh off the patrons sitting at the bar. A set up for a an acoustic duo, but a full on rock concert volume assault.
Better have ear plugs.

[Josiah]

you can hit hard without being loud.

Really? Please elaborate...

cheap drums, heavy thick heads tuned down, dampened, no bottom heads, etc. wail away all you want, you'll never have the volume, projection and presence that a good kit tuned well will with even moderate playing.

see it all the time. cardboard box sounds and absurd bashing. plenty of examples on youtube or head down to your local punk club and watch some guys swing overhead baseball bat style for an astonishing lack of volume.


now say Tom is playing a jazz gig in a small room, the sharp crack of a high tuned snare might upset a few coffee's. lay off the rim shots, tune it down, dampen, choke up on the stick a bit, use a lighter stick...


the best solution imo is simply having the ability in your technique to play quieter. and it is entirely relative to the nominal volume around you.


however if there is a PA involved and the drums are mic'd, i don't see how there could be any issue with the drummers playing volume being "too loud".

[circh bustom]

Julian, Ive seen countless drummers, myself included(ahem), especially when playing outside gigs slam the drums so hard that very little true sound is actually produced. It seems to go against everything we know, but its true. think of the weckl video talking about gripping the stick very tight versus very loose. When he clicks the loose sticks together the sound is fuller, bigger and louder. Sort of in the same ball park with the hitting hard and not being as loud. i know someone mention cranking a Black Beauty and bashing away, i recently received a 6.5x14 and I have it tuned way low and im barely hitting it with a 5B and everyoneIveplayed with since ive got it has remarked about its power and projection. Again, im barely hitting it. Physics is fun,haha