weckl zildjian day 1986

[Steve Holmes]

I had a discussion about this footage with a friend recently, he was around during that time. They played that footage at NAMM that year, he was saying there was simply nothing like it back then, it blew people's minds.
The thing is, Weckl has influenced generations of drummers at this point but no one really matches his overall ability. It's crazy. Guys like him and Vinnie are like Michael Jordan as far as I'm concerned. And the things that make his playing great are common ingredients of MUSIC in general. Dynamics, flow, it just goes down easy when you hear it. A lot of young players (particularly from the gospel school) have neither flow nor dynamics. As a result their stuff is nowhere near as listenable, but instead a wall of LOUD SPEED that feels force fed.

Another note - Dave's solo on Island Magic. His phrasing doesn't really sound 7-ish because his phrases almost always go over the barline, so he's not playing 7 8th notes worth of stuff - he's playing whatever he wants while keeping the meter internally. Nicely done.

[Kurtis]

these cats are just too freaking good. weckl solo starts around the 10 minute mark. love how when dave comes out of his last bars of soloing it's back into the tune like bamo. love old weckl stuff. scotts solo is great.

[Thunderboy]

I had a discussion about this footage with a friend recently, he was around during that time. They played that footage at NAMM that year, he was saying there was simply nothing like it back then, it blew people's minds.
The thing is, Weckl has influenced generations of drummers at this point but no one really matches his overall ability. It's crazy. Guys like him and Vinnie are like Michael Jordan as far as I'm concerned. And the things that make his playing great are common ingredients of MUSIC in general. Dynamics, flow, it just goes down easy when you hear it. A lot of young players (particularly from the gospel school) have neither flow nor dynamics. As a result their stuff is nowhere near as listenable, but instead a wall of LOUD SPEED that feels force fed.

Another note - Dave's solo on Island Magic. His phrasing doesn't really sound 7-ish because his phrases almost always go over the barline, so he's not playing 7 8th notes worth of stuff - he's playing whatever he wants while keeping the meter internally. Nicely done.

Love these old Weckl-clips....especially Island Magic brings back old and somewhat weird memories. I auditioned at a school in front of an attendance jury back in the 90s. I played Island Magic with that Minus-one-tape, problem was they had set up a PA-system so that they heard one of the two stereo-channels and I heard the other one. For those of you who have heard that mix know that it sounds pretty weird only hearing one of the channels......me being nervous and only hearing one channel when playing was really hard. And I wonder what they heard.....I had really been working my butt off learning and trying to make the song (and Dave) some justice.....how it went? The audition went well after all, and I studied at the school but it remains a scary memory. I could never do the song like Dave, but he really inspired me a lot.

[Juan Expósito]

Fantastic performance/times/band in that Kurtis link !!!

On the same video link:
Go to the 12 min 45 sec point and watch how the big monitor reacts to the music...

(The post doesn´t allow me to put an embed youtube link with time marks included...Is it possible? )

[MrGroover]

[quote="Steve Holmes"]I had a discussion about this footage with a friend recently, he was around during that time. They played that footage at NAMM that year, he was saying there was simply nothing like it back then, it blew people's minds.
The thing is, Weckl has influenced generations of drummers at this point but no one really matches his overall ability. It's crazy. Guys like him and Vinnie are like Michael Jordan as far as I'm concerned. And the things that make his playing great are common ingredients of MUSIC in general. Dynamics, flow, it just goes down easy when you hear it. A lot of young players (particularly from the gospel school) have neither flow nor dynamics. As a result their stuff is nowhere near as listenable, but instead a wall of LOUD SPEED that feels force fed.

=======================================================================================================================================================================================
That's exactly how I feel when comparing Dave and Vinnie to most of today's "top drummers". They all great DRUMMERS (not necessarily musicians) w/ lots of chops and amazing technique but, when it comes down to apply their technical ability to the MUSIC that's when everything kind of falls apart in my opinion. For me that's the main difference between Vinnie, Dave, from the rest. They have their "shit" together but they know exactly how to use it in the right time, in the right moment, without falling to the "look what I can do" trap.

When I listen to any type of music my personal perception is that, if something becomes a constant distraction to my ears...there's something wrong.
It can be a guitar riff, keyboard sound, a bass groove, or anything...
If I get distract by something musically speaking it kind "turns me off" and that's what is happening to me lately when I listen to most of today's "popular young drummers".
Don't want to mention names: Ronald Bruner Jr, Teddy Campbell, Tony roster jr, Aaron Spears, Thomas Pridgen, Benny Greb, Thomas Lang, Virgil Donati, etc...
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...

[Rafael Dolinski]

I had a discussion about this footage with a friend recently, he was around during that time. They played that footage at NAMM that year, he was saying there was simply nothing like it back then, it blew people's minds.
The thing is, Weckl has influenced generations of drummers at this point but no one really matches his overall ability. It's crazy. Guys like him and Vinnie are like Michael Jordan as far as I'm concerned. And the things that make his playing great are common ingredients of MUSIC in general. Dynamics, flow, it just goes down easy when you hear it. A lot of young players (particularly from the gospel school) have neither flow nor dynamics. As a result their stuff is nowhere near as listenable, but instead a wall of LOUD SPEED that feels force fed.

=======================================================================================================================================================================================
That's exactly how I feel when comparing Dave and Vinnie to most of today's "top drummers". They all great DRUMMERS (not necessarily musicians) w/ lots of chops and amazing technique but, when it comes down to apply their technical ability to the MUSIC that's when everything kind of falls apart in my opinion. For me that's the main difference between Vinnie, Dave, from the rest. They have their "shit" together but they know exactly how to use it in the right time, in the right moment, without falling to the "look what I can do" trap.

When I listen to any type of music my personal perception is that, if something becomes a constant distraction to my ears...there's something wrong.
It can be a guitar riff, keyboard sound, a bass groove, or anything...
If I get distract by something musically speaking it kind "turns me off" and that's what is happening to me lately when I listen to most of today's "popular young drummers".
Don't want to mention names: Ronald Bruner Jr, Teddy Campbell, Tony roster jr, Aaron Spears, Thomas Pridgen, Benny Greb, Thomas Lang, Virgil Donati, etc...
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...

I remember the first time I watched both. My dad was a drummer and when I started playing I used to listen to Queen, Led Zeppelin, The Jacksons, with all their great drummers that I was listening to all day long. I went to my dad's house one day to check some of the videos that he was telling me about and his favorite drummers... The first thing he showed me was Vinnie playing at Zildjian Day '84. I went completely nuts. After that tape, the Back to Basics tape. I asked him the tapes so I could watch at home. I've watched those tapes for years, just insane drumming that still to this day I love as much as I did back then. I watched Dave live only once but it was amazing. Vinnie also, just once, with Herbie, awesome!

[YamahaPlayer]

Such awesome playing by Dave, never gets old.

I like his older style a little more, it seems to be a bit more airy. Less dense note wise and playing with the space more, then his current style. Which is equally bad ass.

Those videos are just fantastic. I have to go shed now.

[Tombo 7/4]

i want clear ambassadors back on my kit now. I was just thinking of this era Weckl today. I was gonna bust out the BAck to Basics VHS and get all nostalgic...

Dave had clear Emperors in that time. I know it because I desperatly wanted that sound. And I had those 8,10,13,15" yammy toms.

That era of Dave has been overanalyzed it's crazy. At DC, Back to Basics was playing all the time in the lobby with everybody trying to do that trad finger control exercise on the pads while waiting for their lessons.

I was introduced to Dave's playing in the 80's by a teacher who freaked out on my right foot doubles because I (unconsciously) played them like Dave; you know that slide and twist motion. Being a heel down player he desperatly wanted to play like this and I ended up trying to show him a thing I developed through playing lots of Maiden and never paid attention to. He then lent me B2B and I was sold.

[Old Pit Guy]

I had a discussion about this footage with a friend recently, he was around during that time. They played that footage at NAMM that year, he was saying there was simply nothing like it back then, it blew people's minds.

The thing is, Weckl has influenced generations of drummers at this point but no one really matches his overall ability. It's crazy. Guys like him and Vinnie are like Michael Jordan as far as I'm concerned. And the things that make his playing great are common ingredients of MUSIC in general. Dynamics, flow, it just goes down easy when you hear it.

May as well put my toe in the water about here. I was around then. In fact, I graduated PIT the year this was shot. Most everything in the labs to the water cooler to the Rice Bowl across the street was Vinnie or Weckl. Well, J.R. was on the headphones of guys copping groove from Steve Winwood's Back in the High Life album (me), but the influence of these two guys was incredible. Thing was, you could drive out to West L.A. or hop over to the Potato to see Vinnie, whereas events like this or catching the Electric Band were the only way you could see and hear Weckl. I could never choose between one or the other like some guys back then because I've never had a drum idol; too many guys inspire me, so why choose just one? My personal cop-out to that meme was to classify Vinnie as a "Drummer's drummer" and hope that spared me from further explanation!

Anyway, yeah - it was an amazing time, and these two incredible musicians basically sucked all the oxygen out of any drummer-filled room.
I hung out with guys like John Fisher and Gary G (huge Vinnie fan) who loved to pick these two apart. I found myself more drawn to Weckl at the time because of his phrasing. An example occurs near the beginning of the first clip in this thread where, after playing with fragments of a groove for a bit -- and just when you think he's playing some rote pattern for the 1000th time -- he turns it all upside down with an amazing phrase that leaves you wondering where-TF that came from because it's nothing that in your (my) wildest dreams would have popped from your musical head-space. The language these guys spoke ... it was approachable but felt out of reach. You understood what they were saying but you couldn't repeat it in the same way or with the same intent or effect. Inflection ... that's what drew me to Weckl. Now? I just smile and thank the stars they're here to smile at. Oh, I navigated my way back to Vinnie some years later; he was my drummer's drummer after all.

[Steve Holmes]

^^ great post. Thanks for sharing!