Weckl/Coleman "Duel" at Drum Fantasy Camp

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deseipel
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Re: Weckl/Coleman "Duel" at Drum Fantasy Camp

Postby deseipel » Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:28 am

Robert Bluman wrote:In these types of settings Dave's strength's are not as visible. These types of things are designed for non-musician fans. By non-musician I mean weekend warriors, amateur players, and dabblers. There's nothing deep about blistering 16th and 32nd notes, also in triplet form, grouped every way possible for the purpose of showing off. Chris knows this, Dave knows this. We musicians know this. Battling back and forth, playing different versions of the same rhythms over and over for the purpose of applause. It has no musical point.

They are being paid a fine fee, so they put on a little show for these people.


it must be awesome to be able to speak for the real musicians of the world. Thank god you're out there doing it. And it's so generous of you people to put on little shows and give those weekend warriors a chance to dream. Sigh, if only they knew. I don't pity them though, do you? It wouldn't be nice. No, no, I figure the least we can do is put on these types of events and then pat them on the head as they leave. "Go practice those diddles now!", is what I'd yell out as I wave goodbye from my limo. And its a real limo, not one of those cars that they turn into a limo. Those are so shallow and meaningless. I guess mechanics so 'slummin sometimes too. :|

the level of condescension of your post is awe-inspiring. it's really something. I'm serious. The sarcasm above is a tribute.

"Musical Value" or "musical points" are subjective. At the end of the day, the camps give kids a chance to really see world class performers up close. Some kids will never see things like this, or if they do, it's rare and not common in their area. And I'm sure the blistering stuff is just those guys having fun. Part of the journey of being a musician involves pushing yourself to be able to do blistering things. Once you reach that level, it's fun to do. Think of it as a musical George Carlin bit. Being a musician doesn't mean you have to be serious and introspective all the time. And there are things to learn from that, as well as things to learn from playing a steamy quarter note at 60bpm. There are all kinds of musicians in this world, and some like to have fun all the time, while others are super serious. But there's nothing wrong with having fun once in a while. I'm sure you know that, I'm just saying.

What really concerns me about your post is that you seemed to indicate that weekend warriors, amatuers or dabblers are not musicians. do you mean to say they aren't Pros? Isn't that sort of the point of the camp? To teach the non-professionals? I guess I'm not sure at what point you get a license to say who's a 'real' musician and who's not. But creating some sort of class system for musicians is not what its about.
DSOP
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Re: Weckl/Coleman "Duel" at Drum Fantasy Camp

Postby DSOP » Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:35 am

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cjbdrm
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Re: Weckl/Coleman "Duel" at Drum Fantasy Camp

Postby cjbdrm » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:08 am

Steve, thanks for sharing this- enjoyed it. Very rare to see Dave in this setting. Putting it in its proper context, this was good fun and definitely entertaining. But you can't help comparing- lol...it was like the Buddy Rich Memorial tribute minus Vinnie- only Dave is Gadd now and Chris is Weckl/Vinnie!

I think each drummer represented themselves nicely. Whether you prefer one's playing over the other is really just a matter of personal taste and opinion. I do hear more maturity in Dave's playing, though, and I'm personally not a big fan of the gospel monster chops players but at the same time I sure wish I had their facility...I would just use it differently :)

It's interesting to hear the "show-off" reference- you do get a totally different vibe from each drummer even though technically they're both "showing off"...hard to describe...
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kinkymook
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Re: Weckl/Coleman "Duel" at Drum Fantasy Camp

Postby kinkymook » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:12 am

Too bad this wasnt pro shot, as a lot of us here would be watching it as much as we watched Weckl, Gadd, and Colaiuta from the BRMSC from years back. There's some SERIOUS shredding going on here, no doubt. Weckl and Coleman are soooo going for it, both with their own bag of licks and take-no-prisoners intensity. This could be the most intense drum battle I've seen or heard in my lifetime and I personally found it to be very entertaining and inspiring. Coleman has his thing, which is amazing in it's own right, and Weckl?! What can you say about him? Holy shit! He's killing! And that left hand? He's got so much power, grace, and stamina..
The trading section is simply stunning as well. Those two are really listening to each other and picking up where the other left off, SEAMLESSLY.
If you can't find some joy in this, enjoy it for what it is, then I feel sorry for ya'. Sit at home and listen to your Weckl records, disect where it's musically appropriate and where it's not, blahblahblah. I mean, if you were there to witness this, would you stand up at the end and request that they do something next to display some musicality? No, you wouldn't , because you'd be too busy looking for your eyeballs and picking up your jaw off the floor. AND, I'm pretty sure this wasn't a, "Hey, we get paid a pretty penny for this, so maybe we should show off in a big way one night to earn our bread." That's ridiculous.
I'm gonna watch it again this morning and marvel at the interplay, chops, intensity, technique, and wealth of their vocabularies.
D.
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moose
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Re: Weckl/Coleman "Duel" at Drum Fantasy Camp

Postby moose » Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:33 am

Robert Bluman wrote:By non-musician I mean weekend warriors, amateur players, and dabblers.


No offense taken. Really.
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gretsch-o-rama
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Re: Weckl/Coleman "Duel" at Drum Fantasy Camp

Postby gretsch-o-rama » Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:16 am

IDK how people can criticize this. If this didn't make you laugh out loud and love drumming even more, you should examine yourself. That said, I'll take Dave's style any day but Coleman's Chops are approaching BR level. lol
"Ding ding da ding." Apollo teaching Rocky how to Jazz.
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Kurtis
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Re: Weckl/Coleman "Duel" at Drum Fantasy Camp

Postby Kurtis » Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:04 am

7:19 - 7:23 :) love it
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samnmax203
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Re: Weckl/Coleman "Duel" at Drum Fantasy Camp

Postby samnmax203 » Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:50 am

Robert Bluman wrote:In these types of settings Dave's strength's are not as visible. These types of things are designed for non-musician fans. By non-musician I mean weekend warriors, amateur players, and dabblers.


I'm probably just feeding the trolls but I've gotta say something here: When the hell is it that those people you mentioned cross over into "musician" territory?

In my instance, I work in a musical instrument store (11 years now) and keep up on EVERY piece of gear, how/where it's made, changes in design, who's using what, advantages/disadvantages to each, and make recommendations for people based on their needs. I play at LEAST 2-3 times a week (weekend warrior plus?), teach a couple of students on a monthly basis, do session work for friends, practice with the bands I play with, practice at home whenever possible, read drumming books/ watch dvds/ scour the interwebs for that next hit of inspirations, stay out talking about music at every practice until about 4 in the morning, actively listen to music in the car, study music in college (unfortunately not my major), talk about music with my very understanding wife, play music for and teach my 13 month old son about music (he likes percussion so far)... so where do i fit in on your scale of musicians? Because I consider myself a musician, period.

The drum kit is probably the most misunderstood, misused instrument in modern music.


How? I'm failing to see how it's misunderstood and misused. The point of the drums as an instrument is to keep rhythm(s) going, and as a solo instrument it creates melodic phrases like any other instrument. How is this video not expressing that? If you're referencing how in "modern music" it's relegated to BOOM BOOM POW status then I believe you are misunderstanding the usage of the instrument in that particular setting: IT'S TO MAKE GIRLS SHAKE THEIR ASSES WHILE THEY DANCE IN THE CLUB HAVING FUN. What do you want, an Ari Hoenig tom melody as the beat for the next J. Lo song? Interesting idea aside, the triangle peg wouldn't fit into the square hole. /end rant
LinearDrumma
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Re: Weckl/Coleman "Duel" at Drum Fantasy Camp

Postby LinearDrumma » Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:44 am

Great Video!
Must have been a real honor for Chris since he constanly mentions Weckl as his major influence.

Also why can't 2 drummers just have fun and shed..don't understand why "no musicality" statements apply here.
Phil T.
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Re: Weckl/Coleman "Duel" at Drum Fantasy Camp

Postby Phil T. » Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:47 am

Robert Bluman wrote:By non-musician I mean weekend warriors, amateur players, and dabblers.


I resemble that remark.

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