Why Occupy Wall Street struck a nerve

DSOP
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Why Occupy Wall Street struck a nerve

Postby DSOP » Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:04 pm

First, the system is rigged. Wealthy individuals and corporations have disproportionate influence
over public policy because of the often decisive role that money plays in elections. If the rich and
powerful act in their self-interest, as conservative ideologues believe we all should do, then the rich
and powerful’s share of income will continue to soar.

Second, and more broadly, the real issue is what kind of nation we want to be. Thomas Jefferson’s
“All men are created equal” is properly understood as calling for equality of opportunity, not equality
of outcomes. But the more we become a nation of rich and poor, the less we can pretend to be offering
the same opportunities to every American. As polarization increases, mobility declines. The whole
point of the American Dream is that it is available to everyone, not just those who awaken from
their slumbers on down-filled pillows and 800-thread-count sheets.

So it does matter that as the pie grows, the various slices do not grow in proportion. We’re not
characters in one of those lumbering, interminable, nonsensical Ayn Rand novels. We believe in
individual initiative and the free market, but we also believe that nationhood necessarily involves
a commitment to our fellow citizens, an acknowledgment that we’re engaged in a common
enterprise. We believe that opportunity should be more than just an empty word.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ ... story.html
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electrizer
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Re: Why Occupy Wall Street struck a nerve

Postby electrizer » Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:20 pm

I wonder where this is going. Oh, I really am... I remember sitting in history classes and listening about amazing stuff that happened in the past. Well, this is history in the making before our eyes. Something's going to snap, sooner or later. I just wonder if more people will be prone to risk the comfort of their every-day routine of work, cars, partying and iPhones to create a better future for themselves.
circh bustom
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Re: Why Occupy Wall Street struck a nerve

Postby circh bustom » Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:46 pm

electrizer, I hope you are describing the Occupiers themselves there. I can't take them seriously when a majority of the ones my wife saw in Times Square the Saturday they caused a stir, yes she was in NYC that day, not as a protester, but working her second job, haha. She saw people with iPhones, $100 shoes, expensive clothing, MACs, etc. Give me a break. This isnt to get attention for the cause. This is attention for the sake of attention. The Paris Hilton of protests. In the 60's and 70's people LIVED what they were protesting for. It wasn't a badge of honor. They weren't living off of mom and dad's trust fund on a break from the four year university party. While I don't disagree with the official mission statement of the cause, I'm sick of this facade. For the record, I have no money. My wife and I work as hard as we can both with our regular 9-5 and beyond. We own a 800sq ft house which is tiny, and I drive an 8 yr old car and we have one modest car payment for her car. We struggle, and we also take responsibility for any actions that may have brought us to the point we are at.
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Re: Why Occupy Wall Street struck a nerve

Postby DSOP » Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:08 pm

circh bustom wrote:We struggle, and we also take responsibility for any actions that may have brought us to the point we are at.


Read the article I posted the link to. Don't get put off by who is protesting. Don't judge someone because he has nice shoes or an expensive watch. Sure, some of the people at the protests may not even know why they're there. The point is to change what hasn't changed in over thirty years. The government is broken and run by big money. And not just the U.S. government either. This is a worldwide problem, which is why there are worldwide protests.

Please, read the article.

I know this post is definitely off topic, but it's important to everyone and the discussion needs to continue. Change is inevitable.

Mahatma Gandhi wrote:"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win."
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electrizer
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Re: Why Occupy Wall Street struck a nerve

Postby electrizer » Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:12 pm

circh bustom wrote:electrizer, I hope you are describing the Occupiers themselves there. I can't take them seriously when a majority of the ones my wife saw in Times Square the Saturday they caused a stir, yes she was in NYC that day, not as a protester, but working her second job, haha. She saw people with iPhones, $100 shoes, expensive clothing, MACs, etc. Give me a break. This isnt to get attention for the cause. This is attention for the sake of attention. The Paris Hilton of protests. In the 60's and 70's people LIVED what they were protesting for. It wasn't a badge of honor. They weren't living off of mom and dad's trust fund on a break from the four year university party. While I don't disagree with the official mission statement of the cause, I'm sick of this facade. For the record, I have no money. My wife and I work as hard as we can both with our regular 9-5 and beyond. We own a 800sq ft house which is tiny, and I drive an 8 yr old car and we have one modest car payment for her car. We struggle, and we also take responsibility for any actions that may have brought us to the point we are at.


This may be the case but did you go to Times Sq along with hundreds of others to help amplify the matter? I work too, not 9-5 but 7-15, 14-22 and sometimes 22-8. And although I have an MA degree I work with my muscles. My wife leaves home 8 and comes back 8pm. And we do have money because we save religiously for a flat of our own. But regardless of the professional and personal situation of you or me, what stands is our passivity while the idiomatic 1% do their black magic behind newspaper headlines, tv news and our backs. This has to stop if we don't want to observe gradual limitations of our liberties. This is not conspiracy theorism, and if anyone thinks it is they should grow up quickly and educate themselves. Prices are soaring, new taxes are sprouting one after another. The other day I read that one of London councils will be charging for admission to kids' playground due to maintenance costs. Say what??? All the developed countries are not governed by their respective governments but lobbyists who act on behalf of those who have money.

Whether it's a tramp or a wealthy uni dropout, it's them who went there to put the matter in the news and on papers' front pages and got themselves arrested by the police who get paid from your and my taxes. Something's going on finally and it's a good thing.

Oh, and that Gandhi quote is priceless!
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Re: Why Occupy Wall Street struck a nerve

Postby circh bustom » Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:33 pm

Please reread my post then. I said I have a hard time taking most of the protesters serious. I also said that I do not disagree with the mission statement. In these situations, the message and the messengers cant be seperated. How would you feel if Clarence Thomas was protesting for women's rights? What about a Nazi march for equality? I'd like to see the people REALLY struggling in this country to go out and protest about the govt. Problem is, we are all working to keep our houses and feed our kids. These protests really mean nothing. The govt wanted start testing people on welfare to be eligible, then the people stood up and said no no no. That's a violation of civil rights. Yeah what about my civil rights to not have to pay for someone elses habit? Im not worried about some guy on Wall Street right now. We say people dont have the same opportunities as others. I say, wrong. having spent half my life growing up in the inner city, and the other half of my life in a more rural environment, Ive seen most opportunities wasted. Everybody HAS to go to school. Skipping school, or dropping out, or not applying yourself is a choice. Once you spit in the face of that choice, what should happen then? Should we say that its ok and heres another and another and another? Then when they are 30, broke with no future and 2 kids, the hard working people have to pay for it. People refuse to see opportunity when it is presented. not my fault they couldn't open there eyes. As I said, Ive wasted alot of opportunities and i dont go around saying "the man" is holding me down. before we go protesting other peoples actions, how about we all examine our own actions. Straighten them out, then go worry about the actions of others. How about credit? Ok. 99% of the people I hve known have been eligible to get a credit card at one time or another. Maybe 50% of those are still able to now. Why did that 49% stretch themselves beyond where they could be? Ok, maybe some lost a job due to downsizing or something beyond their control, that is always a factor, but not everybody. I know plenty of folks who ran up the credit cards on impulse and then cried about it afterward saying these big corporations are charging me high interest and not being fair. Fair? They gave you the opportunity to pay your bill and be responsible and what happened? Thats what I thought. How about illegal aliens? Well the people say we cant get rid of them because they do the jobs that Americans dont want to do. WTF? You have no job, go out and wash dishes. paint something. weed someone's garden. again, it's not the greatest opportunity, but having someone say they would much rather sit back and suck on the govt tit instead of getting some kind of honest work is absurd. let's change that, then head down to Wall Street. how about an Occupy Social services office? Im in no way saying that big corporations are squeaky clean smelling like roses and made of candy and ice cream, but we live in a capitalist society and yes change is inevitible, yet it may not always be the change you want. This capitalist society has gone from friendly to foe. Change right there. Just not in your favor. Things will always be this way in a capitalist society. You want real change? completely knock this model down so it has no worth and start at the foundation and build it back up to your liking. This going around and waving signs and saying just the right soundbytes is getting old and its useless and clogging up our streets and airwaves.
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Re: Why Occupy Wall Street struck a nerve

Postby circh bustom » Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:38 pm

But electrizer, you just kind of proved my point. You have taken the opportunities given to you, and ran with them. You say you have a master's degree and you work with your muscles, which I imagine means physical labor. You didnt sit home and whine that you couldnt use your degree. You said you use your money wisely.
And no we didnt go to Times Square to amplify the situation, my wife was working a second, well actually a third job that week besides her 9-5. And in 9-5 I mean her fourty hour a week full time regular job. she rarely works 9-5 actually.
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Lucas Ives
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Re: Why Occupy Wall Street struck a nerve

Postby Lucas Ives » Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:59 pm

I'm not really sure why folks who have iPhones and shoes (hey, that's me!) can't be angry about large corporations getting 0% bailout loans on the backs of the taxpayer. Taibbi hits the nail on the head, IMO:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/bl ... g-20111025
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Re: Why Occupy Wall Street struck a nerve

Postby DSOP » Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:16 pm

Lucas Ives wrote:http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/owss-beef-wall-street-isnt-winning-its-cheating-20111025


Brilliant.

Here's another good one:

if you thought this was the deal that would hold banks accountable for filing
phony documents in courts, foreclosing without showing they had the legal right to
do so and generally running roughshod over anyone who opposed them, you are likely
to be disappointed


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/30/busin ... sting.html
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Re: Why Occupy Wall Street struck a nerve

Postby DSOP » Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:20 pm


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