Gig vs studio - technique differences?

[electrizer]

I had a conversation with my guitarist who also is the (self-taught) sound engineer and producer for us and he said something that "when you record you should play your cymbals quieter" and mentioned that there are differences in the way you play live and in studio.

While I agree that the kit sometimes must be altered slightly, like the distance of the cymbals from the kit changed or something, do you reckon there are some special precautions to be taken with regards to your technique when you play? Obviously, when in studio the aspect of perfectionism comes into play, you record different takes etc. while live you just "go" but do you guys change your way of playing from the usual when you record? I think that, on the contrary, it should stay where it is to faithfully reflect your personality as a musician, so theoretically if your style as a, say, punk drummer, is to bash the living shit out of your gear shouldn't you do that?

Cheers!
Przemek

[Josiah]

Play how you play. You shouldn't make any changes going into a recording situation. That's just asking for problems. The studio's job is to capture YOUR playing. Not the other way around.

I'm formally taught and have never heard that you should play cymbals quieter, if anything the general rule is to play louder all around. Certainly a number of notable guys have talked about playing heavier in the studio. Check out some video's of Vince, he's laying into it where it need be and holding back where appropriate for the MUSIC. Not the Microphones.

But, ideally you've developed a great "self mix" aka you have learned to mix the sounds of your kit effectively via your physical playing, knowing the various volumes of your cymbals, drums and the type of feel you want.

[Odd-Arne Oseberg]

Shouldn' t be any difference. If anything you have to exaggerate things to get the energy accross.

[Steve Holmes]

I would think a decision like that would be decided by the music/song.

[chris perra]

If you have the ability to control your dynamics on certain drums/cymbals then you should depending on the room you record in. Especially in a small acoustically untreated room

The same goes for playing live. If you are in a glass room you want to lay off the cymbals and snare period..

Every mic in the room when recording or playing live is picking up bleed from anything that is being played..So, if your hihat is crazy loud it's difficult to isolate it from the snare mic, or tom mics ect.. You'll either have to gate them or edit the tracks to clean it up. But even with gates there is still a bit of bleed.. Pounding the crap out of your snare creates tons of bleed as well

Toms and rides, or crashes near the floor tom mic can be a pain to deal with if you are pounding the crap out of the cymbal after you hit the tom.. You want the fullness and sustain of the tom to come through, so you add some compression, to lengthen the toms note, but if the crash right after the fill is stupid loud.. The tom sustain gets buried under a pile of SHHHHSSSSssssss..

You shouldn't sacrifice your performance to accommodate the recording but if you are serious about recording it makes a big difference. Ideally you should be able to put a single Large diaphragm mic in the room and hear everything well if you are a balanced sounding drummer. For recording try putting one mic behind your right shoulder pointing at the center of your kit. Play a bit and see how balanced things are.. For an example of how you sound live, in front of your kit 10 feet out if you can..

The sucky part is, every room you play is different and sometimes you need to lay off different parts of the kit depending on the size and type of surfaces in the room.

[Frank Sanchez]

I agree thoroughly with Josiah. It's an issue of being able to dynamically mix your own sound. The engineer needs to capture what you sound like, not engineer a drum sound out of you. I have had this exact experience where the guy made the same kind of claim the night before the session. I had recorded with him years before and we never had that problem. Unfortunately, for that one track, we had that problem and it sounds awful to this day!

Play like you play and get the sound engineer to capture it. If he's your bread and butter and you have to "politick" it, play with as few cymbal hits as possible.

[Tom Hipskind]

There should be no difference. The idea that 'studio' playing and 'live' playing are somehow stylistically different and require different approaches (or different technique somehow) is a myth.

If anything, being put under the "studio microscope" will help to reveal issues in your playing you previously might not have heard or noticed. For example, if you're playing your cymbals too loud on a recording, wouldn't it stand to reason you're doing it that way at a club as well? And time problems that come into play in the studio don't magically disappear when there's no click anymore.

I'm formally taught and have never heard that you should play cymbals quieter, if anything the general rule is to play louder all around.

I have found that to be true in some cases, but it's not a hard & fast rule by any stretch. It depends on the song you're playing. Playing louder and harder doesn't always translate into more energy either; in fact, oftentimes I've discovered that by playing more softly I allow compressors to add more fatness and feel to the drum track. But you certainly DO need to project your sound, and not play small and 'mousey', especially on the drums (vs. on the cymbals). More than anything, it's about playing with a good dynamic and musical balance. You can play with a huge sound without playing extremely loud.

You shouldn't make any changes going into a recording situation. That's just asking for problems.

Indeed! And you won't be comfortable physically or mentally. And how can you play a remotely decent track when you're not comfortable?

[Matus]

In my book, a good recording musician doesn't need to think about that. Your own taste and musicality should already be linked to how you get the sound out of yout instrument to "mix" yourself in a way that fits the music. That's why I like a lot of room in my headphones, it's much more realistic.
Of course, we're assuming your cymbals are not so heavy it hurts to hear them.

[electrizer]

If you have the ability to control your dynamics on certain drums/cymbals then you should depending on the room you record in. Especially in a small acoustically untreated room

The same goes for playing live. If you are in a glass room you want to lay off the cymbals and snare period..

Every mic in the room when recording or playing live is picking up bleed from anything that is being played..So, if your hihat is crazy loud it's difficult to isolate it from the snare mic, or tom mics ect.. You'll either have to gate them or edit the tracks to clean it up. But even with gates there is still a bit of bleed.. Pounding the crap out of your snare creates tons of bleed as well

Toms and rides, or crashes near the floor tom mic can be a pain to deal with if you are pounding the crap out of the cymbal after you hit the tom.. You want the fullness and sustain of the tom to come through, so you add some compression, to lengthen the toms note, but if the crash right after the fill is stupid loud.. The tom sustain gets buried under a pile of SHHHHSSSSssssss..

You shouldn't sacrifice your performance to accommodate the recording but if you are serious about recording it makes a big difference. Ideally you should be able to put a single Large diaphragm mic in the room and hear everything well if you are a balanced sounding drummer. For recording try putting one mic behind your right shoulder pointing at the center of your kit. Play a bit and see how balanced things are.. For an example of how you sound live, in front of your kit 10 feet out if you can..

The sucky part is, every room you play is different and sometimes you need to lay off different parts of the kit depending on the size and type of surfaces in the room.

These are exactly the kind of issues that motivated my question. We self-record ourselves, an do that in our own place which is a soundproofed garage. So it's not too large and far from professionally finished studios.

I'll try the thing with putting the mic behind me, we'll see what comes up.

Thank you guys all for you feedback! All the best!

[chris perra]

I have a studio In my basement with pro level gear..IE Neuman, AKG, Senheisser mics, with hi end preamps ect..

From a perspective of someone who records albums that I play on the dynamics count regarding cymbals ect....
A great deal has to do with the smaller room I'm in. 30 by 15 with a 6 ft 3 ceiling... It's heavily treated and I rebuild the room sound after...

Most of the heavy duty outboard gear, plugins and sample libraries were developed to deal with garbage sounds or lack of ability on a musicians instrument. Like pitch correction, reamping guitars, Melodyne, or Slate Drum samples ect.

If you want to spend a ton on that or succumb to a "God Complexing" engineer who will resample you drum sound ect.. That's one way to go..

However,... realizing what you sound like in any given room using your ears rather than strict muscle memory will help when you want to sound great in any room.

The development process of most of us is playing in small rooms. Either slowly going deaf from the volume and developing muscle memory that way

Or ,wearing hearing protection and developing muscle memory with a 15 to 30 db reduction in what we are producing..
(Mostly reducing in the mids and highs)

So if we heard back a full range mono or stereo mic either behind the right ear or in front of the kit, Things would most likely be alot different than what we thought was happening...


Top level recording studios jobs are to eliminate that difference while you are recording so it feels awesome while tracking,..
Top Level studio musicians jobs are to make it easy for an engineer/producer to get levels that are consistent and don't need any EQ, Compressions or Effects when tracking...

That's why there are people that get payed hundreds do there job and there are others that get payed thousands..