Grip question

[deseipel]

I'm constantly trying to evaluate my grip since I've experienced elbow issues, but what I'm wondering is:

I've heard lots of folks say that the butt end of the stick should go down the center of the palm


And

Do not let the butt end stick out the side of your palm.


What I've noticed is that my grip seems to allowt butt end to stick out the side of my palm. Not extremely, but it's definitely not down the center of my palm, as recommended by others. What I haven't heard explained is Why? Why does it have to go down the center of the palm?

What's the benefit? Aren't all hands different?

Butt out or Butt in?

[Don Worth]

I like your grip in the 2nd pic, since that is more how your hand folds around the stick. I would say it could go a little further to the center of your hand. I have my students hang their hand at the side and I lay the stick in their hand and have them close the hand naturally. Also, to think how your hand holds a screw driver since that is the natural way your hand will close. I find for power and most playing it can be done from were your 2nd picture illustrates. Some of your playing will tend to fall into your first picture but not such a folded hand, more like the 2nd pic as you have the tips of all your fingers on the stick. In my mind it is all about how your hand folds and closes around a round object in YOUR hand. I hope that might help.

Don

[Jim Richman]

Need to see it from the top, and the thumb side for a more comprehensive analysis.

[Gaddabout]

I think it really depends if you're playing French or American grip. American grip is 3/4 palm down, so the butt of the stick isn't going to be very comfortable if you try to remain center palm. French grip ... I don't know much about it except it's what I sometimes use when I'm using a lot of finger action and it's not the grip you want to use with a lot of wrist action (though MANY drummers get lazy and fall into that trap and end up with repetitive use injuries).

More important than either, IMO, is you're not bending your wrists to the left or the right. That's unnatural, can cause unnecessary strain, and it's why I think center-of-palm is common reference point. If the horizontal angle of your stick is causing a wrist to overcorrect to bring the bead to a center, that can also cause strain on the elbow FYI.

[Matus]

The whole point about grip and hand position is that your forearm muscles are involved in everything that happens from your elbow down, so if your hand is adopting a certain position you're putting tension on certain muscles, which should be free to propel your wrist movements.
Say you follow the "inside your palm" advice. To achieve that stick position, you can do it by bending your wrist out, which will put tension on part of your flexor forearm muscles and also make your up-down wrist motion more difficult to make. If you avoid that and do it through finger position (as I can see on your pic), the muscles would still have tension on them, as fingers are operated by your forearm muscles too and, guess what, your flex motion basically uses the same group.
Also, if you hold your stick that way, the butt end of the stick will be likely to hit your wrist and to avoid that you'd have to adopt a not so efficient relative position and so on.
Your grip should have relaxed fingers and wrist so the only muscles working are the ones you need and doing so for the motions you want them to. Proper finger position will prevent your stick from flying away instead of finger pressure and a neutral hand position will always benefit your wrist movements.
IMO, a position as showed in your first pic should never be advised. Look for a detailed forearm muscle map and see where your muscle insertions go. You might discover a few things about your elbow issues...

[Matus]

I think it really depends if you're playing French or American grip. American grip is 3/4 palm down, so the butt of the stick isn't going to be very comfortable if you try to remain center palm. French grip ... I don't know much about it except it's what I sometimes use when I'm using a lot of finger action and it's not the grip you want to use with a lot of wrist action (though MANY drummers get lazy and fall into that trap and end up with repetitive use injuries).

More important than either, IMO, is you're not bending your wrists to the left or the right. That's unnatural, can cause unnecessary strain, and it's why I think center-of-palm is common reference point. If the horizontal angle of your stick is causing a wrist to overcorrect to bring the bead to a center, that can also cause strain on the elbow FYI.

If you play french grip and hold your stick with the butt end on the center of your palm, you'll be able to see your thumb go forward, which is a clear sign of hand tension.
The natural, neutral way of your hand holding something long as a drumstick is through your palm, not centered on it. I think we all agree that a neutral fulcrum point would be around 3/4 length of the stick, right where it's best balanced. That will most likely leave some butt end sticking out and it should never be placed in the center of your palm.

[gretsch-o-rama]

Try practicing Moeller and you'll see that the stick needs to go through the side for that and as everyone else is saying it depends on what grip you use, i.e. what sound source you're playing. German=snare drum, French= ride cymbal etc.

[Morgenthaler]

Mine is basically a german grip to begin with. Some alterations happen, not least when
i'm playing ride cymbal, but on a pad this is what it looks like, filmed from the side.

(I'm using Vater Shedder in this clip)

[Josiah]

relax, be confident in your playing, training and just let it flow. your body is smarter then your conscious thinking, let it handle the mechanics while you handle the music.

[john lamb]

I think it really depends if you're playing French or American grip. American grip is 3/4 palm down, so the butt of the stick isn't going to be very comfortable if you try to remain center palm. French grip ... I don't know much about it except it's what I sometimes use when I'm using a lot of finger action and it's not the grip you want to use with a lot of wrist action (though MANY drummers get lazy and fall into that trap and end up with repetitive use injuries).

Except that, when using thumb-on-top grip, then the stick will come out the side of the hand mid-stroke. IMO, its not a matter of laziness. Great technique means you are doing things the easy way. Holding the stick with a finger grip and playing loud isn't very easy, and it hurts. IMO its not laziness so much as it is confusion.

More important than either, IMO, is you're not bending your wrists to the left or the right. That's unnatural, can cause unnecessary strain, and it's why I think center-of-palm is common reference point. If the horizontal angle of your stick is causing a wrist to overcorrect to bring the bead to a center, that can also cause strain on the elbow FYI.

It is natural - there are 3 joings in the writs - The first moves up + down, the 2nd side to side, and the 3rd spreads the fingers. Its just that there isn't much of range of motion in the side to side mvoement, so you max out the joint really easily. Its just not effective when you want to play loud, and because the fingers curl up+down, it doesn't allow you to include the fingers in the movement. Its just not practical.