Seeking Justice for Musicians in Jazz Clubs

[DSOP]

The paragraph breaks help a lot!

Playing for the joy is great, and I support that 100%. But you can play for the joy in a rehearsal room. You can rent a hall and sell tickets. You can stream a show on the web and have full control of how you sound and look. There are way better ways to promote a band and have fun playing than playing for free.

I can understand wanting to play a "famous" club for the experience, but I still think it's wrong to play publicly for free, unless it's a charity of some sort, or a jam situation, or an audition.

Of course there are going to be exceptions, but this isn't about profiting from your instrument, it's really just about being fair and reasonable. And I wasn't talking about cover bands. I don't think there are many cover bands anymore anyway, aside from the plethora of tribute shows that probably do fairly well.

Playing for the love of music is great. Playing for free lowers the bar in many ways.

[circh bustom]

New Jersey especially, is inundated with cover bands. The usual response when asking these bands why? They all say original music makes no money.

I'm not saying everybody should play for free eveytime, nor will I only play for free for the rest of my life. It's just not the basis and the drive behind my playing. Deseipel asked where the line is, well, that is subjective. Every person has their own line, and they can always choose to not gig. Once money moves closer to the top of the list as a reason for playing, it usually stays near the top and in my opinion, that is when the music suffers.

I understand that I can play for fun in a rehearsal hall or my drum room at home, but be real. That is not the same as playing in front of an audience.

To be fair, I've never agreed with the whole " I started playing music to get girls" either. Although, I can probably let that one slide by easier than the money thing because the girls statement touches on the primal reaction to music, which is more of why I got into music in the first place. And is mostly why I still play.

[DSOP]

I'm amazed that New Jersey has so many cover bands. And people that actually are still into hearing that live?

I understand that I can play for fun in a rehearsal hall or my drum room at home, but be real. That is not the same as playing in front of an audience.

Playing in front of people definitely takes your playing up another notch; No doubt about it. For me personally though, the kind of music I care about isn't appreciated or enjoyed by many people, so it would be all but impossible to assemble many people that would care to listen or watch it.

I'm not an entertainer. I'm kind of selfish when it comes to music. It's more about pleasing me first. If others enjoy it (and most don't), that's a bonus. I haven't played in a cover band for at least 20 years. When I was 18, it was fine. I played 6 days a week with a matinee on Saturdays and made $400. Peanut butter sandwiches and top-40 music got old pretty fast, but playing every day, different cities, new people - it had it's good points too.

[circh bustom]

I remember a gallup poll in the mid-90's that showed that jersey, especially from central to south had the highest concentration of cover bands in the WORLD. Geez. I think that still rings true. This weekend I can name 10 cover bands off the top of my head that will be playing alot of the same tunes, at the same time within a 90 minute drive. That does not count the large number of out of town bands passing thru and playing casinos or some of the bigger shore establishments. And that is the last weekend of January. Come summer from Toms River to Cape May, every bar or restaurant has some type of cover music. From a single dude with an acoustic, to a 10 piece horn band with some freak up front. Now here is where I go back to my audience issue about 30 posts ago:) The crowds all say they are tired of hearing the same old songs from cover bands. But if you are in a band that does album cuts, or strays away from the popular bar/club standards, no one shows up. They all say they respect you, and think you are great, but they are at the "other bar" where they can hear the same old songs. You can, of course, find a band that does some songs that surprise you and sound good and the audience digs it, but they are few and far between. The audience is tired of hearing the same old thing, yet they will also go to a dance club to hear the same songs cranked up loud that they have been listening to on the radio all week. The market has dried up for other genres too, not just jazz. The problem around here, maybe not so in LA, but around here, it is the money that has been the downfall of the music scene around here. The bands want more, the clubs want to pay less.

I will say this, my outlook changed on this whole situation around this time in '09. I left a fairly well received cover band to join an original band. The cover band, as much as those guys are still my best friends, had become about pay and who moves this equiptment and blah blah blah. So I joined this original band, and I was having fun, but then THEY started in about the $$. The cost of recording, gas, payment at shows, advertising blah blah blah. The problem was that they didnt have their own songs down so I left. so I started jamming with some guys that Ive played with over the years doing reggae, and Grateful Dead type of stuff. We got a gig every thursday night at a bar/restaurant. They said that they would split the register with us at the end of the night. Needless to say, somenights we got 20$ each, some nights 50$, and a one or two even more. They also gave us food at every gig. Man, I miss that gig. We had freedom to do what we wanted. One huge set that lasted 3 1/2 hours? No problem. Six 20 minute sets? Sure, go for it. I was able to improvise and try things that I'd been working on thru-out the week with out feeling guilty about it. We made some great music, and even though some of us had higher paying gigs through-out the week, this was THE gig that we all looked forward to. I had to drive about 40 minutes each way, so a good chunk of my $ went towards gas, but the experience was great. We always drew some people and it was one of the best periods in my musical existence. Since then, Ive looked at the situatuion differently I guess. Ironically, the single highest paying gig Ive ever done was with a version of this band im speaking of at a wedding a few years before, haha. Now, I only want to play the best that I can play at a gig and sound the way I want to sound. This band has recently reconvened and we are going to go and get some paying gigs, but even if we only play for 50$ a man, it'll be a great night.

[DSOP]

Yeah, I can relate to that. If you're given that kind of freedom to just play whatever you want, then it's BETTER than a rehearsal and can satisfy all of your practice and growth needs for sure. I had a regular Monday night thing with some friends and it was the same thing. Instead of paying a rehearsal hall, we could just rehearse and experiment on stage. Many nights there was no one in the audience, but like I said before, that's find by me if I'm digging the music.

[deseipel]

It really goes to show .... something I don't know, but around where I live; it's all cover bands (which is ironic that I live in Peoria where they used to say 'if it doesn't play in Peoria, it won't play anywhere). Cover bands account for the majority of musicians here. There's little or no outlet for original music, unless you want to do the punk rock thing. Clubs just don't want it. There are certainly no regular jazz gigs that pay either, if people want jazz they go to the local jazz society to hear it. And I believe the guys who play there do it for nothing. In fact, it's really hard for me to imagine a town where original acts drive the scene. ??? but maybe I'm stuck in some sort of mid-west cover band bubble, I don;t know, but to hear 'tales from the real world' is a bit depressing...

[Josiah]

Instead of paying a rehearsal hall, we could just rehearse and experiment on stage. Many nights there was no one in the audience, but like I said before, that's find by me if I'm digging the music.

Ooooh so you DO play live for free.... how interesting!

[DSOP]

Ooooh so you DO play live for free.... how interesting!

Yes, and no. There was no cover charge, and we were playing instrumental, experimental nonsense. It was actually easier for us to meet at this particular public stage to "jam" than it was to schedule time at rehearsal studios.

[Jim Richman]

I think the main problem, Josiah, is you not understanding the nature of this thread. It has to do with making a living by playing out in clubs----which at one time you could almost do.
Josiah, you teach drums. This is different from playing out professionally full time and deriving most of your income from live playing. You mention all your paying gigs, yet there are none mentioned on your website. One video of a loud rock band, and that's it. You are not in a position to slag professional drummers about their wanting pay cause you do not play out with the hopes of getting paid like a professional should. Sure there are situations that do not fall in the money thing---but not caring about money is stupid, cause you could actually be doing a job(any job) where you get paid instead of wanking for free.

All we want is a lousy hundred dollars a man, when club owners want 3-5 people to split 100-200 dollars(sometimes less). I would play for less given the right circumstances. I had a club owner who was paying 200 dollars for a jazz band, I was tempted to do a trio, then he wanted a 4-5 piece. I asked him for a cheeseburger per man for the show, he said no. Keep in mind, I sat in with a group there, made the band sound good, and the owner approached me about playing there with my group---which I did not have at the time. I got some players who would do it, and that's when the negotiations fell through. DSOP got it right---- he got a free place to make a sonic mess without having to pay a rehearsal studio. And I am sure he does not do it every week. It was convenient.

[DSOP]

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