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Matus wrote:Am I really the only one hearing he's an 8th note ahead? I mean, I do get this stuff, I like doing it when it's fitting, but if you actually count along, the fill is perfect (the taste behind it would be a whole different discussion) but he comes back an 8th note ahead, cristal clear.

Being the nerd that I am, I slowed down the clip and added a click. End result: No beats missed. Hooray!
here's the link:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3927154/fred.mp3

I think it was in Modern Drummer where AH revealed he didn't like groove oriented drummers. He prefers drummers who are able to stretch time and make it flow. He's giving up on drummers like VC, CW and GH. IMHO that's not happening in these clips, there is no such thing as flow and time stretching here. But who knows what kind of message AH gave to RB or what he's looking for nowadays. Aggression and singles wise RB gets close to Tony's playing with AH. And I dig that!

Yussuf wrote:

Matus wrote:Am I really the only one hearing he's an 8th note ahead? I mean, I do get this stuff, I like doing it when it's fitting, but if you actually count along, the fill is perfect (the taste behind it would be a whole different discussion) but he comes back an 8th note ahead, cristal clear.

Being the nerd that I am, I slowed down the clip and added a click. End result: No beats missed. Hooray!
here's the link:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3927154/fred.mp3

that was badass man!!! debate ended. ron's laugh cracks me up.

I'm not into it basically because I can't feel it. Sounds like he's fighting with the bass all the way and not in a consistent way, but rather inconsistent a sloppy.

I'm not at this level as a drummer.....yet......., but if I had Jimmy(on of my all time favourite bass players) on my left side laying it down, I'm prety sure I'd make it feel better.

Now, obviously judging someone from a clip on youtube is sort of stupid, for all sorts of reasons, and it's hard to really judge a groove without hearing the full spectrum, but you can sort of sense the attitude. Lots of examples of Vinnie "overplaying" on clips at the Spud, but the thing is that he's just more connected to the pulse of the band, has much better flow and less rigidity.

^^ yeah but Vinnie also has about 30 years of life AND gigging on Bruner. I still cant believe how much people are analyzing this performance somewhat negatively. Take Vinnie for example, most of us know Vinnie from his recordings, YouTube posts and live performances, in that order. He takes down videos that he doesnt like. Maybe he hears something that doesnt live up to his expectations and refuses to let the public see/hear it by taking it down. How many times has there been a gig or a song where Vinnie hit a clam? Or droppped a beat. Do we really think that never happens? Are we really so glamoured that we think Vinnie never overplays? Never has a moment of self absorbed wanking during a song? Bruner is playing with a guitarist more than twice his age who has toured and made records with two of THE drum gods, AND has played probably at least one gig with every other drumming great out there. It's most likely that Holdsworth appreciates and expects a wrong note, dropped beat, and moments of wankery from his drummers on his gigs. It's a fusion trio, so there is a great deal of room. At 37 if Holdsworth called me for a gig(he wont) and told me to do what I feel, which is what I read most of the guitarists say, my confidence level would be pretty high. I couldn't imagine that happening in my 20's. I applaud him for this. He played what he heard.

Man, we really need to stop throwing Vinnie's name for comparing or anything...

Some dig Ronald, some don't, it's the same for EVERY drummers, you can't please everybody, but as long as the guy who is hiring you dig you, it's the most important thing.

Rodge wrote:...as long as the guy who is hiring you dig you, it's the most important thing.

That's the easiest thing to lose sight of but is so true, Rodge.

For a drummer, it really doesn't matter how many other drummers dig you. What counts is how many keyboardists, guitarists, bassists, and songwriteres etc. dig your playing.

I dont want to seem like im bashing Ron, i've seen some other things by him and he is an amazing musician, but in this particular performance I wouldnt see how Allan could be pleased, he missed a lot of hits specially on that last section. And as someone said JJ didn't look too thrilled either.

It's hard to play a gig like Alllan's, you have to be technical but subservient to the music at the same time, not all cats can conceptualize that. Ron was playing for himself IMO.

Rodge wrote:Man, we really need to stop throwing Vinnie's name for comparing or anything...

Some dig Ronald, some don't, it's the same for EVERY drummers, you can't please everybody, but as long as the guy who is hiring you dig you, it's the most important thing.

True. But, Rodge! We have to compare everyone to Vinnie because he is the man! Also, DSOP, spot on. As drummers, we are so in to pleasing our peers that we lose sight of the fact that they don't hire us (yes, they may recommend us, but that's not my point)!