Jack! A Love Supeme!

[Yussuf]

I don't hear licks in Jacks playing.

Josiah, I'm not denying anyones right to criticize what they don't like (I have done my fair share of that too), it's just that naming Dejohnettes playing as "piece of shit" shows huge disrespect from your side. He's a guy who has been a part of the revolution in drumming in a modern jazz context. And still is. His sound is one of the most recognizable in the world of drumming. I think that everybody here owes something to him musically.
I see your behaviour as the equivalent of getting a gift from a stranger and then later on urinating on him in public just because you didn't appreciate that gift.
Again you don't have to like everything. Sometimes it's just better to be more graceful. Or even better, all quiet.

[Jim Richman]

sorry Jack's execution of that solo is weak, and i can point out numerous points in that video where you can see it, all over. the hesitation, the lack of commitment to the notes, lack of stock control, etc, since when is playing a chopping closed roll considered "good"?

but an idea that doesnt evolve over what? 40 years? That's just stagnated blahness.

Like the blushda?

Aww come on man really? i thought the level of intellect is far above that here. the 'blushda' lick has been evolved, by MANY players, far beyond what Tony did. Players have used the blushda, most notably Vinnie, in ways that we don't even regonize that he was doing it til after the transcription is pointed out.
Not to mention, Tony ain't around anymore.

And since you use it as a counter point, i'll go on further to illustrate exactly what I mean. Tony brought the blushda, players have taken it and evolved the lick. Show me a lick that Jack brought to the drum set that is currently being used on a regular basis by modern masters.... there are none.


im a young guy, didnt grow up with the early stuff. so be it. I can appreciate what those players did for the instrument and music AT THE TIME. Fantastic stuff.

but that solo, in modern context - is shit. ya i can sit down and approximate various melodic solos and phrases i know on the kit, but why? its drumset. if i wanted to play you a music solo, i'd do it on the marimba, where i have 4.5 octaves to move over. you will praise Jack for his amazing drum set solo but really compared to Lionel Hampton?! just come on, play the fucking drums. or play the bells. but dont try and say combining the two in some pseudo like fashion is special.

Ok. Did you Know that Jack is also an accomplished pianist and composer? I'm sure if he wanted to do a piano solo, he would. But there was no piano at this performance. As far as your age, you did not have to mention that you were young; we could already tell that from what you were writing. You keep talking about drum licks, as drum licks are used a lead ins or grace notes of musical phrasing, when you have no new ideas at that moment in time. Kinda like saying the word 'the' over and over. You can play all the licks you want. Personally, I would rather play everything else but licks.

[renardvert]

I can understand people not liking Jack's solo. But he really has a cool style to me and he clearly has a sound of his own.

Here he is playing with Keith Jarrett doing some burning trades. Listen to that lick where he plays in unison with his ride and snare mixed with some hihat foot in between. Killer!

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/Jackdejohnettekeith2.html

[circh bustom]

To my ears and eyes this solo didnt get going till around the 7:00 minute mark. I have to agree though that if you put up just the audio and said it was Keith Chafig from Pennybone, Missouri we wouldnt care for it.
Watching him I of course noticed the dynamics, and some of the technical execution, but Jack's "thing" has always been his commitment and as mentioned in an earlier post, it just wasnt there.
its funny that it was originally mentioned about the reaction to audio only. After listening to Live/Evil numerous times, i have to agree. i always wondered what was so fantastic about him? Was it that he played the solo in motorcycle boots? I guess one can argue that you have to look at the times, but in 1970 we had Buddy AND Bonham tearin up the drums. Im not trying to say he sucks or that he's worthless, but if he had never been a part of one of Miles' groups, we probably would not even be having this discussion.

[Jean-Paul]

There's a great DVD with beautiful composed and performed music;

http://www.amazon.com/Dejohnette-Hancock-Holland-Metheny-Concert/dp/B00004XOR4

In Europe the cover art is different but it's the same release.

IMHO highly recommended stuff. Please check it out.

[Ghostnoter]

i made it to 2:07..

every time i hear him solo it occurs to me that if you just took the audio and put it under a different name it would get a very different response.

What response is that?

the response such playing would incur minus the famous name. crap. boring. most people probably wouldnt make it through the first 60 seconds of that without looking around and wondering WTF?!

the ideas are cool, though static and outdated, but the execution is even worse. melodic playing is not new, his ONE solo back in the day was something cool, but an idea that doesnt evolve over what? 40 years? That's just stagnated blahness.

his playing on various albums is extraordinary. not trying to take away from that at all. but as a soloist, it falls flat.

Young blood, doesn't get it. Jack is telling a story. Going on a journey. If you will, slow, long deliberate 'carnal' activity, to coin a analogy. He is telling a story, constructing the elements as he goes. He is in the moment. Sometimes in the midst of this creativity, one wants to go somewhere else, hence, the stoping/the hesitation, of the steam of consciousness of playing and wanting to play with the muse; as he composes his statements of his solo.
I guess, maybe you prefer the wham, bam thank you m'aam, sort of solo or whatever. Get it over nice and quick. The sad fact is that we are on a forum talking about Jack...or in your case po- po-ing his performance while he is continuing to contribute to annals of jazz drumming and music making. Okay, you don't care for it. Fine. This put down reminds me of how Louis Armstrong felt about the be boppers in his day. "this is nothing but 'chinese' music..."
Perhaps, Jr. here is voicing his dislike for Jack's drumming like Louis did in his time? Maybe, Jr. will revolutionize the art of soloing and do something so unique with the blush'da, that we will all be in awe of his propelling the jazz drummer's 'language' into the late 21st century...(holding my breath)
I also have to agree with some of the other posters regarding Jr. age...you didn't have to divulge that nugget of information. We could read it in your comments...carry on, cousin. It all in fun...oh, for the record, I like Jack. Like him alot! One of my heroes. Amazing drummer and musician, Grammy award winner at that! A love Supreme, indeed!
G

[Ghostnoter]

To my ears and eyes this solo didnt get going till around the 7:00 minute mark. I have to agree though that if you put up just the audio and said it was Keith Chafig from Pennybone, Missouri we wouldnt care for it.
Watching him I of course noticed the dynamics, and some of the technical execution, but Jack's "thing" has always been his commitment and as mentioned in an earlier post, it just wasnt there.
its funny that it was originally mentioned about the reaction to audio only. After listening to Live/Evil numerous times, i have to agree. i always wondered what was so fantastic about him? Was it that he played the solo in motorcycle boots? I guess one can argue that you have to look at the times, but in 1970 we had Buddy AND Bonham tearin up the drums. Im not trying to say he sucks or that he's worthless, but if he had never been a part of one of Miles' groups, we probably would not even be having this discussion.

Ah, no. You have to go alittle further back than Miles. Charles Lloyd, Bill Evans, just to name 2...Checkout Miles live in Festival in Juan Fins 1969. Around or about the same time as the Live/Evil period. His drumming on that cd (import) is SCARY!! He took that music, that Tony started, ramped it up and took it somewhere else totally. So the man has history, aside from Miles. I believe most players earn their way to the status that the nusicians/fan's/critics, etc bestow on them. My 2 pennies...
G

[Henry II]

i made it to 2:07..

every time i hear him solo it occurs to me that if you just took the audio and put it under a different name it would get a very different response.

What response is that?

the response such playing would incur minus the famous name. crap. boring. most people probably wouldnt make it through the first 60 seconds of that without looking around and wondering WTF?!

the ideas are cool, though static and outdated, but the execution is even worse. melodic playing is not new, his ONE solo back in the day was something cool, but an idea that doesnt evolve over what? 40 years? That's just stagnated blahness.

his playing on various albums is extraordinary. not trying to take away from that at all. but as a soloist, it falls flat.

Uggh! You're a clown!

[Henry II]

sorry Jack's execution of that solo is weak, and i can point out numerous points in that video where you can see it, all over. the hesitation, the lack of commitment to the notes, lack of stock control, etc, since when is playing a chopping closed roll considered "good"?

but an idea that doesnt evolve over what? 40 years? That's just stagnated blahness.

Like the blushda?

Aww come on man really? i thought the level of intellect is far above that here. the 'blushda' lick has been evolved, by MANY players, far beyond what Tony did. Players have used the blushda, most notably Vinnie, in ways that we don't even regonize that he was doing it til after the transcription is pointed out.
Not to mention, Tony ain't around anymore.

And since you use it as a counter point, i'll go on further to illustrate exactly what I mean. Tony brought the blushda, players have taken it and evolved the lick. Show me a lick that Jack brought to the drum set that is currently being used on a regular basis by modern masters.... there are none.


im a young guy, didnt grow up with the early stuff. so be it. I can appreciate what those players did for the instrument and music AT THE TIME. Fantastic stuff.

but that solo, in modern context - is shit. ya i can sit down and approximate various melodic solos and phrases i know on the kit, but why? its drumset. if i wanted to play you a music solo, i'd do it on the marimba, where i have 4.5 octaves to move over. you will praise Jack for his amazing drum set solo but really compared to Lionel Hampton?! just come on, play the fucking drums. or play the bells. but dont try and say combining the two in some pseudo like fashion is special.

Ah, now I get it! You're from Colorado!

[Henry II]

Young blood, doesn't get it. Jack is telling a story. Going on a journey. If you will, slow, long deliberate 'carnal' activity, to coin a analogy. He is telling a story, constructing the elements as he goes. He is in the moment. Sometimes in the midst of this creativity, one wants to go somewhere else, hence, the stoping/the hesitation, of the steam of consciousness of playing and wanting to play with the muse; as he composes his statements of his solo.
I guess, maybe you prefer the wham, bam thank you m'aam, sort of solo or whatever. Get it over nice and quick. The sad fact is that we are on a forum talking about Jack...or in your case po- po-ing his performance while he is continuing to contribute to annals of jazz drumming and music making. Okay, you don't care for it. Fine. This put down reminds me of how Louis Armstrong felt about the be boppers in his day. "this is nothing but 'chinese' music..."
Perhaps, Jr. here is voicing his dislike for Jack's drumming like Louis did in his time? Maybe, Jr. will revolutionize the art of soloing and do something so unique with the blush'da, that we will all be in awe of his propelling the jazz drummer's 'language' into the late 21st century...(holding my breath)
I also have to agree with some of the other posters regarding Jr. age...you didn't have to divulge that nugget of information. We could read it in your comments...carry on, cousin. It all in fun...oh, for the record, I like Jack. Like him alot! One of my heroes. Amazing drummer and musician, Grammy award winner at that! A love Supreme, indeed!
G

Jack is one guy whose solos I can listen to in purpetuity! Everything he plays is beautiful, meaningful, tasteful and contextually excellent. But, I have to admit, he's no Danny Carey!

Youngblood is a douchebag!