Jack! A Love Supeme!

[Jim Richman]

It would actually be bologna sandwich but we arent that picky round here right? haha

So the kid doesnt like Gadd or Dejohnette. Big deal. i dont care for Dejohnette either. I also loathe Billy Cobham, ya gonna call me names because of it? All thru history the older generation says what hey like is better and the newer generation disagrees. Always. Elvis is a freakin legend in my parents eyes, but my grandparents think he's crap. Some older band comrades of mine think that the bass guitar starts and ends with Jack Bruce. I disagree and can give as many reasons for my argument as they can their's. Its all subjective. His reasons for disliking them are as strong for him as your reasons for liking them. Just because they have a legendary aura behind them doesnt mean they have to be liked by everybody. The guy has listened to Gadd and Jack and determined they dont fit his idea of what sounds good. Im sure, as evidence in the two threads, there are plenty who disagree. Im sure there are plenty who do agree.
I read in an interview that Buddy Rich thought John Bonham was a joke. to quote him "anybody can do that". Now I know Buddy was a force of nature, but almost every single drummer I have ever known would disagree with what Buddy says there. Doesnt mean that in Buddy's head he was wrong, just different from what other people might think.
Ive heard stuff from Jack that i thought was good. The video above from drummerworld was great. But on a whole id have to say i dont really like him. He certainly doesnt suck, and the man can play, but I wont be searching him out anytime soon.

Maybe it's not necessarily the drummer that one does not like, but the idiom of music. Gadd is a hard drummer not to like, as he has recorded a vast variety of music, and he's not a chopsy drummer. Billy and Jack are jazz drummers, so maybe the jazz genre can turn one off if you are not into it, I dunno, there are some "famous" drummers I do not like. And a LOT of peeps like them. But I like Jack cause he has that "toy box thrown down the stairs" style.

[Henry II]

It's ok, it's not Josiah's fault. He probably doesn't get most jazz and has no desire to do so. That's fine but he must realize that there is a certain jazz element to this board and bashing on the heavyweights is gonna rock the boat. Maybe he'd feel more at home on the virgil board...

Hahaha! I was thinking the Pearl forum!

You know what, if he had said that he just didn't dig Jack, or didn't get it, or feel it, there would have probably been a meaningful, enlightening discussion about what some do and don't like about Jack compared to what he and others do like. But, that's not what happened. When you use the word "crap" in a discussion about Jack Dejohnette, you pretty much foreclose any further meaningful "discussion" on his playing. Maybe Josiah is just a troll and poisoning the well was his intent all along. Notice he hasn't returned since his "hit and run" in the Gadd and Jack threads.

Anyway, for those mature enough to exerecise the patience to listen all the way through, I thought this was a virtuous exhibition of using a classic melodic phrase within a form to develop a beautiful extended solo. JMO!

[circh bustom]

Just because someone doesnt like something isnt an invitation to all of a sudden say they dont "get" it. I dont like death metal or black metal with blast beats. Doesnt mean i dont get it, just means I dont like the choices the musicians have made. Just because Gadd is a god in a lot of people's eyes, and Jack has been hired by legends does not automatically mean everyone has to like them.
So the guy says he thinks they are "crap". Don't hold his youth against him. Its all part of the musical evolution that takes place as you grow. I used to "hate" bands and thought they "sucked" just cause I didnt like them or they weren't cool at the time. We arent all born with the musical maturity of a Tony Williams were at 17 was far beyond what most of us will acheive at 3x that age. Most children at some point scream that they hate their parents, do we hold it against them? No, it's all part of the growing process in my eyes. Yes its hard for YOU to not like Gadd or Jack, but this kid would much rather hear Danny Carey play a prog rock beat in 5. Who knows where that path may lead him. My view is that it is the ones that go against the grain that make the biggest impact if they follow thru. If Kiss, The Police, Tony Williams, Elvin Jones, Bob Marley, Albert Einstein, or Galileo had all followed the rules of what was already the accepted norm, we might not ever had heard of them. Now I am not comparing this kid to anyone on that list, BUT its just a different perspective. Even if the kid wakes up next Tuesday and says " holy crap, Gadd is god" or " Jack speaks to me now" it wouldn't even be an "I told you so moment". Its all part of the growth.

[langmick]

Could Danny Carey hang with these guys? Probably not.

[gretsch-o-rama]

Just because someone doesnt like something isnt an invitation to all of a sudden say they dont "get" it. I dont like death metal or black metal with blast beats. Doesnt mean i dont get it, just means I dont like the choices the musicians have made. Just because Gadd is a god in a lot of people's eyes, and Jack has been hired by legends does not automatically mean everyone has to like them.
So the guy says he thinks they are "crap". Don't hold his youth against him. Its all part of the musical evolution that takes place as you grow. I used to "hate" bands and thought they "sucked" just cause I didnt like them or they weren't cool at the time. We arent all born with the musical maturity of a Tony Williams were at 17 was far beyond what most of us will acheive at 3x that age. Most children at some point scream that they hate their parents, do we hold it against them? No, it's all part of the growing process in my eyes. Yes its hard for YOU to not like Gadd or Jack, but this kid would much rather hear Danny Carey play a prog rock beat in 5. Who knows where that path may lead him. My view is that it is the ones that go against the grain that make the biggest impact if they follow thru. If Kiss, The Police, Tony Williams, Elvin Jones, Bob Marley, Albert Einstein, or Galileo had all followed the rules of what was already the accepted norm, we might not ever had heard of them. Now I am not comparing this kid to anyone on that list, BUT its just a different perspective. Even if the kid wakes up next Tuesday and says " holy crap, Gadd is god" or " Jack speaks to me now" it wouldn't even be an "I told you so moment". Its all part of the growth.

I'm not sure what your point is... Should I just concede that yes, Danny Carey is a better drummer than Jack? Well, for Tool he certainly is... And further more, why don't you like Death Metal? I like Cynic the band and they're metal or something close to it. Jazz is my music of choice though, in general. I like some metal, hip hop, jazz, fusion, reggae, rock, progressive rock, but anyway enough about me... My point is there is something to "get" about every kind of music, IF IT'S QUALITY... if it's not, then it's got poor intentions or execution. I think Josiah is challenging Jack's quality which really can't be challenged if you know ANYTHING about drums!

[Josiah]

It's ok, it's not Josiah's fault. He probably doesn't get most jazz and has no desire to do so. That's fine but he must realize that there is a certain jazz element to this board and bashing on the heavyweights is gonna rock the boat. Maybe he'd feel more at home on the virgil board...

i actually play a regular straight ahead gig and own a 4th edition copy of the real book. i studied jazz under chuck flores for years. i own vinyl copies of recordings from the blue note.

...and no, it's not for the day I knew i would have to prove my opinion to you or show that "i GET jazz". a saying that in and of itself just oozes bullshit. it is just that, my lowly opinion. and yours holds no more weight then mine.
its more to show how full of it you must be to think because somebody doesnt idolize the drummer you do, they must on a whole not "get" music. because indeed I am highly educated in the subject of drums, studied under some of the best, even jazz guys... !!!! GASP!!!!

the fact that you want to bring ad-hominem to the argument does nothing but make you look like a child. that you don't think someone can "get jazz" and NOT like the drummer you like even more so.

this board loves jazz, and i would venture from the years ive been reading over it, guys like Novak and Williams are way higher in the polls the Jack.
the proof is in the pudding bud. do a search on thread titles for "Tony Williams" and "Jack Dejohnette" on this OR the old forum.... one of those is going to literally be 100x the other.

and like that very easy display of unknowing popular opinion, mine weighs in about the same, Jack is note worthy and worth mentioning, but others far exceed.


by the way, whoever you are 'gretsch o rama', as hard as you may find it to believe, even the best in the world, all of them actually, do not agree on issues like this. and, believe it or not - but it is still true - have negative things to say about other players, dead and alive.
you would probably be appalled at some comments, as you obviously are, about various "greats" that are made by.. well greats.

there is no magic "get it" sphere of drums or music for that matter. our differing opinions are a large part of why music is so awesome and diverse. diverse, it's a cool concept check it out.

...can't be challenged if you know ANYTHING about drums!

wow.

[Josiah]

[quote="langmick"]Could Danny Carey hang with these guys? Probably not.[/langmick]

....Danny has a jazz group he put together over a decade ago and he personally studied under Vic Firth for a substantial amount of time. Pretty sure he could hang.




haha seriously, funny stuff.


Gary Novak crushes Jack up and down, all around, and yes, he plays heavy rock music too!! OH SNAP. he doesn't play jazz with trad grip either....

[Yussuf]

omg travis barker lol please close this thread.

[langmick]

"Gary Novak crushes Jack up and down"

Ok. Like in an Arnold in Predator sort of way, or Stallone in Rocky IV? Or like a Chuck Norris sidekick?

How old are you?

[Jim Richman]

Could Danny Carey hang with these guys? Probably not.[/langmick]

....Danny has a jazz group he put together over a decade ago and he personally studied under Vic Firth for a substantial amount of time. Pretty sure he could hang.




haha seriously, funny stuff.


Gary Novak crushes Jack up and down, all around, and yes, he plays heavy rock music too!! OH SNAP. he doesn't play jazz with trad grip either....

Vic Firth is a drumstick. DANNY CAREY DOES NOT PLAY MATCHED GRIP!!!!! What do YOU know? BTW, hanging and playing the shit out of something are two different things. Most killer jazz groups have album s theyrecord to document their awesome playing. Danny Carey has ZERO jazz recordings of his group. Also, Travis Barker is GOD.