Female Drummers

[Henry II]

I've never been touched by Hilary's drumming, like if she would be a man, she would never be invited to any drum events, it's what I think, and she can't touch TLC, Cindy or Sheila, even by dreaming...

And, I was virtual friend with her on FB until I saw her politics view, oh, my God...

Hahahahahaha! I hear you loud and clear, Rodge! And I couldn't agree more about Hilary Jones' drumming. She's not in the same league with a musician the calibre of TLC. There's no gender adjustment needed with TLC. IMO, she's better than many of the best male drummers I've seen. At best, Hilary Jones is a competent timekeeper with generic phrasing.

[Henry II]

I didn't mean to come off harsh its just that this has been an irritation to me in all art forms. I just don't get it. The girls here in this thread can play, but if they were men, do you think they would be known drummers? Just FYI though, Cindy was very well known in the drum world long before Lenny Kravitz even had a record deal. She was playing exactly like Tony WIlliams with many many jazz artists. Look her up.
It's not about men vs women, in fact it's anti division at all. I believe a person's sex should be a factor at all. There aren't too many professional drummers that are from Hawaii either, but there isn't a thread about it. Know what I'm getting at? This female drummer/musician thing as been going on for years. There are even websites for them and a separate section on drummerworld.com. Why?
It doesn't matter, I just don't feel a persons sex is a factor at all, yet they get more attention because of it.

She can play exactly like Philly Joe Jones and Max Roach too!

[Robert Bluman]

I didn't mean to come off harsh its just that this has been an irritation to me in all art forms. I just don't get it. The girls here in this thread can play, but if they were men, do you think they would be known drummers? Just FYI though, Cindy was very well known in the drum world long before Lenny Kravitz even had a record deal. She was playing exactly like Tony WIlliams with many many jazz artists. Look her up.
It's not about men vs women, in fact it's anti division at all. I believe a person's sex should be a factor at all. There aren't too many professional drummers that are from Hawaii either, but there isn't a thread about it. Know what I'm getting at? This female drummer/musician thing as been going on for years. There are even websites for them and a separate section on drummerworld.com. Why?
It doesn't matter, I just don't feel a persons sex is a factor at all, yet they get more attention because of it.

She can play exactly like Philly Joe Jones and Max Roach too!

And? So can 10,000 other drummers. You think copying people constitute's playing in the big leagues? If Cindy was a man, she would not be a recognized player.

[amoergosum]

And? So can 10,000 other drummers. You think copying people constitute's playing in the big leagues? If Cindy was a man, she would not be a recognized player.

Did you read my post? >>>

If you want to start a discussion about men versus women, please do so and start another thread.

Link: viewtopic.php?p=10605#p10605

[Robert Bluman]

Yes, I read your post. Did you read the title of your thread? Female Drummers. We're talking about them. You said you started this because there are less female drummers than male drummers. That doesn't make sense. A drummer is a drummer, whether they are black, white, gay, straight, asian, american, european, MALE OR FEMALE. Are you starting a Gay drummers thread next? There are not that many. By your logic, that would make sense. I don't agree with that.

Someone mentioned Tal W. on bass. Do you really think if Tal can play more bass Will Lee, Jimmy Haslip, or a number of male bassists that would have loved to be on tour with Herbie Hancock or Jeff Beck? If she were a man, we wouldn't know her name. Let's even the playing field. Stop treating women musicians like they're a special breed. They're equal to men, and should have the same standard.

[amoergosum]

...

[Rene]

Yes, I read your post. Did you read the title of your thread? Female Drummers. We're talking about them. You said you started this because there are less female drummers than male drummers. That doesn't make sense. A drummer is a drummer, whether they are black, white, gay, straight, asian, american, european, MALE OR FEMALE. Are you starting a Gay drummers thread next? There are not that many. By your logic, that would make sense. I don't agree with that.

Someone mentioned Tal W. on bass. Do you really think if Tal can play more bass Will Lee, Jimmy Haslip, or a number of male bassists that would have loved to be on tour with Herbie Hancock or Jeff Beck? If she were a man, we wouldn't know her name. Let's even the playing field. Stop treating women musicians like they're a special breed. They're equal to men, and should have the same standard.

Why not mix in this discussion.....

Do you read your own posts? What amazes is you that totally contradict yourself. Not just your latter message, but basically all post were you mix in a discussion. Some examples with respect to your latter post:

- Let me tell you a secret: there ARE less female drummers than male drummers. It's a fact, and a fact makes sense. It doesn't make sense to say that it (ie. a fact) doesn't make sense.....
- if a drummer is a drummer, why respond in a Steve Hash threat in the first place? Let me be more specific: why worship him? Let me guess: because you're probably SH fan? I'm not and have nothing to add, so I DON"T respond.
- "Treating woman like a special breed , they are equel to men" => (logical implication) Tal Wilkenfield is equal to Will Lee. But after reading your response I can only conclude that she isn't from your point of view. You don't like any of the female drummers mentioned in the threat?


And above all: posts in this threat do not really differ from any post in the Vinnie, Glenn or Dave W. threat.

[Henry II]

I didn't mean to come off harsh its just that this has been an irritation to me in all art forms. I just don't get it. The girls here in this thread can play, but if they were men, do you think they would be known drummers? Just FYI though, Cindy was very well known in the drum world long before Lenny Kravitz even had a record deal. She was playing exactly like Tony WIlliams with many many jazz artists. Look her up.
It's not about men vs women, in fact it's anti division at all. I believe a person's sex should be a factor at all. There aren't too many professional drummers that are from Hawaii either, but there isn't a thread about it. Know what I'm getting at? This female drummer/musician thing as been going on for years. There are even websites for them and a separate section on drummerworld.com. Why?
It doesn't matter, I just don't feel a persons sex is a factor at all, yet they get more attention because of it.

She can play exactly like Philly Joe Jones and Max Roach too!

And? So can 10,000 other drummers. You think copying people constitute's playing in the big leagues? If Cindy was a man, she would not be a recognized player.

I don't think so! 10,000 drummers may be able to play the same notes, but, the can't play the way Cindy Blackman does. She's the real deal.

[Robert Bluman]

I don't agree. A) I didn't say Tal and Will are equal. I said they should not be treated differently based upon their sex. I didn't contradict myself. Rene I'm not a worshiper of any known drummer. I contribute my opinions to threads like anyone else. The SH youtube thread I posted in has many other posters and opinions, and I didn't start that thread. I'm a fan of many drummer's contributions to the field, and I find inspiration through them. I certainly hope for your sake that this Karen Carpenter clip isn't your idea of a great inspiring player. It's more like a 10th grade band rudimentary solo. Not bad for a singer though. I commented and continue to comment in this thread because I don't feel that women musicians should have special treatment because a) there are more men in the field , and b) they are women. Based on playing alone there are very few who can compete at all on a professional level, yet all of them are very famous and more so than some amazing male drummers. I think this is wrong. I recently went to the website of a young female drummer who's name I will not mention. She's a clinician for Gretsch and Zildjian. Her website is full of big names and such. When I went to her video clips, she was nothing more than a beginner. Sounded like an out of time Neil Peart. Why is she successful? She's an attractive female. That's why.


B) Henry, that's fine, it's your opinion. I know that drummers such as Marcus Gilmore, Ari Hoenig, and Dan Wiess to name a few, are far more musically accomplished players than Cindy Blackman. If they were women they too would be household names. Cindy can play great, no doubt. But she's no better than most great unknown drummers. And that my friend, is because she is an attractive woman. The truth must be told. That, is the case with most women musicians. The famous are not bad players, and I never said they were. It just takes much LESS musical ability for a woman musician to get noticed, and that my friend is a double standard. You can't name ONE that holds a candle, musically or skill level, to any of the top male drummers. Don't be a part of the charade. Tell it like it is.

[amoergosum]