Vinnie/Gretsch divorce?

[Matthijs Ament]

I often use Gretsch New Classic drums, they're great really. And made in Asia. I'm in Indonesia right now @ the Java Jazz festival and brother, they love and respect the music, the artists and the history of it all. Sonor has their non-hi-end drums built in Asia as well. Asia is gonna be the 'new west' I think. Within 50 years we might be building their stuff. These people work hard, learn fast and listen to great music. Amazing.

[DSOP]

The only issue I personally have with companies outsourceing their manufacturing to Asia is the exploitation of the workers. Unsafe working conditions and ridiculously low compensation so that those at the top can make more money. If workers' rights and environmental protections were enforced around the world we would have a level playing field, and then we could focus on the "what" instead of the "how".

[DeeP_FRieD]

The only issue I personally have with companies outsourceing their manufacturing to Asia is the exploitation of the workers. Unsafe working conditions and ridiculously low compensation so that those at the top can make more money. If workers' rights and environmental protections were enforced around the world we would have a level playing field, and then we could focus on the "what" instead of the "how".

Don't forget to mention that people in the US also used to be employed at these manufacturers, so it's double bunk.

[Riddim]

How is this bunk?

[Kurtis]

The only issue I personally have with companies outsourceing their manufacturing to Asia is the exploitation of the workers. Unsafe working conditions and ridiculously low compensation so that those at the top can make more money. If workers' rights and environmental protections were enforced around the world we would have a level playing field, and then we could focus on the "what" instead of the "how".

what? really. i'm sure you have done some research on outsourcing. there are millions of products outsourced. i'm sure you have read about apples recent production conditions in china. sky's the limit on this issue. it's profitable. it's almost like your living in a dream world and can't grasp reality. this has been going on for decades. let me get you a vanilla cookie.

[DSOP]

what? really. i'm sure you have done some research on outsourcing. there are millions of products outsourced. i'm sure you have read about apples recent production conditions in china. sky's the limit on this issue. it's profitable. it's almost like your living in a dream world and can't grasp reality. this has been going on for decades. let me get you a vanilla cookie.

Dream world? Can't grasp reality? Believe me, I know all about the economics of outsourcing. That doesn't mean I shouldn't say that I don't approve of it.

And it may be profitable in the short term for a few fat cats running the corporations, but long term, everyone else loses. To think otherwise is delusional, selfish, and evil.

[Matthijs Ament]

I hear you Paul, but the level playing field will come to be because [!] of outsourcing. Wages will rise, infrastructure will be optimized and more skilled workers [education] will be needed. It is a matter of time. Already some European companies are moving production back from Asia to North-Africa, Middle-East and Eastern Europe because in the end it is cheaper to work closer to home.

[deseipel]

personally, I don't think that 'offshoring' labor will end within my lifetime. As long as companies need cheap labor, they're always going to look outside the US. In 10-20 years, it will be some other country's labor force that will be doing the work for a fraction of what it would cost in the US. Globalization is king. And no one who works in manufacturing needs any more skills than they did 50 years ago. Quality comes from the materials and the process, very little has to do with assembly, imo. Even if workers in Asia get a raise after their economy explodes (which is happening now), I'm willing to bet that their will always be some other country who can do it for cheaper.

[Old Pit Guy]

Globalization is, as Grieder said 20 years ago, a race to the bottom, driven by greed and doomed to failure as it inevitably devolves into an each man for himself proposition. A rising tide doesn't lift all boats; only those during high tides. It's utterly foolish to believe corporatism works in anyone's interest but its own. The entire concept of unfettered global trade is ludicrous on face if only for the fact capitalism is its driving force and survives solely by devouring whatever it's pointed towards with zero regard for anything but feeding itself.

And it's only Monday.

[DSOP]

Globalization is, as Grieder said 20 years ago, a race to the bottom, driven by greed and doomed to failure as it inevitably devolves into an each man for himself proposition. A rising tide doesn't lift all boats; only those during high tides. It's utterly foolish to believe corporatism works in anyone's interest but its own. The entire concept of unfettered global trade is ludicrous on face if only for the fact capitalism is its driving force and survives solely by devouring whatever it's pointed towards with zero regard for anything but feeding itself.

Can I hear an amen? Amen brother!