VC on the cover of next month MD.

[Rodge]

Nothing special in that interview.

[Lucas Ives]

read it this AM. capsule summary: "Be yourself, stop trying to be me. Also, I switched gear for sonic reasons. Furthermore, although I frequently yell at the kids on my lawn, I have hope for the future of live music."

[bstocky]

I find it interesting when guys switch from the cymbals way up and angled in the air to lower and flatter and then eventually they ditch the 2nd tom and put the ride there. There are some things that just make sense ergonomically. There are certain positions that just make sense and some that don't. It's funny when someone like Vinnie switches to something logical and you know guys will scratch their heads. They copied his old setup, will now question his switch and they'll eventually give in and copy his new setup.

[Steve Holmes]

RE The setup I think it comes down to age and how much you play. Young Dave and Vince could play the ride up high for days, night after night. You get older, it doesn't make sense. You have to be more efficient. I feel myself crossing the line and I play maybe 3-4 hours a week? Try this:
Rise your right arm so it's playing the ride in a high position. With your other hand, touch your right shoulder. Notice the muscles are a bit tense because they're being used to hold up your right arm. Now lower your right arm until the shoulder muscle relaxes. It's a lower ride height, uses less shoulder the hold up your arm.

I like how Buddy had it all along.

I'm not preaching one or the other. Just sayin'.

[nomsgmusic]

I haven't read the MD interview yet, but I figured I would comment on (and wholeheartedly agree with) what Steve just wrote. As a younger drummer I used to put my ride in the (what seemed to be at the time) the "normal" position. Sort of in front and above my right side rack tom (for the sake of explanation, sort of in front and above of where Vinnie or Weckl's 12" tom used to be. And actually ((now that I think about it)) where Weckl used to put his ride.) When I was younger I used to experiment wildly with all sorts of setups, (didn't we all) but I really never changed my ride position much. But eventually I felt that my right arm was very unnatural feeling when I played my ride, and it was affecting my time flow. I experimented with different heights, but that feeling, and the fatigue was always there.

Then I experimented with moving my ride to the right about 8 or 10 inches or so. Sort of sitting halfway between the rh rack tom, and the floor tom, but still at the same height and angle.) This too was also a pretty "normal" position, but the change was enough that I was no longer reaching out or forward to my ride, but instead I was reaching to the side. This adjustment meant the world to how I felt physically behind the drums.

I got the inspiration from watching Tony play live one time (while I was sitting behind him at the Vanguard.) When he moved from his SD to his ride he was moving side to side. The side to side movement looked much more natural, and this coincided with what I was feeling. It was also where Gadd had his ride, and I figured no one looks more comfortable at the set than Gadd. Later I saw that Gadd actually angled his ride from the side a bit as well, and this accentuated that movement even more. The more I watched people play, the more I noticed their ride cymbal position, and this slight side position became even more "obvious."

It seems to relate to how baseball pitchers have what they refer to as a natural "arm slot." When you reach in front of yourself it feels like you are actually displacing the joint a bit (even if you aren't reaching far.) But, when you reach to the side your shoulder joint and muscles feel much more relaxed and natural, and in the natural "arm slot."

In time (and with age) I have also come to think that if your upper arm is doing anything but hanging down (somewhere close to) straight from your shoulder when you are playing your ride, you are needlessly supporting the weight of your upper arm with your shoulder (this is what Steve is talking about.) You would be surprised to see how high you can have your ride mounted while still keeping your upper arm hanging down straight from your shoulder. But that's not my point here, the point is do what Steve said with feeling the muscles. But then also try feeling your shoulder joint as you reach out, if your ride is mounted more in front of you than to the side, it makes a BIG difference.

But it all depends on how much you actually play (perform,) and age. I spent 8 years (almost straight) on the road touring with a Blues act, always between 5-7 nights a week, and at least 3 sets a night (sometimes 4.) This makes you really economize your movements, tweak your setup, road lifestyle, etc. Today I play 3-5 nights a week and teach 40 or so students, and I am proud to say that at the age of 43, I have never had any "physical" issues at the drums. Unfortunately, many younger drummers never get the opportunity to play-perform that much, so they never really have to think about physical issues. But it's important no matter how much you play!

I have always taken the physical movements at the drums very seriously (and I stress it with many students,) and I credit this to my ongoing lack of "pain." Someone told me way back that with almost all drummers as they age the height of their ride gets lower, I think we can all look around to some of our heroes to see that this is very true. The warranty expires at 50 guys.

Earplugs, and natural movements at the drums!
MSG

[willyz]

The ride cymbal placement is something I've thought about a lot- for a while I was flat, with a crash lower than the ride and to the right (ala Jojo, for example), though recently I've been more comfortable with it placed higher and angled more, almost like the Tony sort of thing.

I find that as my snare tilts more away from me, the ride cymbal is getting higher and tilted towards me- a balance thing, perhaps?

Anyway- I need to pick up this MD...

[bstocky]

RE The setup I think it comes down to age and how much you play. Young Dave and Vince could play the ride up high for days, night after night. You get older, it doesn't make sense. You have to be more efficient. I feel myself crossing the line and I play maybe 3-4 hours a week? Try this:
Rise your right arm so it's playing the ride in a high position. With your other hand, touch your right shoulder. Notice the muscles are a bit tense because they're being used to hold up your right arm. Now lower your right arm until the should muscle relaxes. It's a lower ride height, uses less shoulder the hold up your arm.

Ahahahaha. I do that all the time to my students.
The body can adapt to almost any setup but there are some things that just make sense and some don't.
Whenever I watch you play I say " he has to be thinking about moving that ride" but then where does it go? You don't want to ditch that second tom... where does everything go?
It's interesting to see mine and other drummers sets change through the years. I'll be watching what you do Steve.

[Odd-Arne Oseberg]

I have basically copied Vinnie's old Gretsch setup. The ride thing is something I've been thinking a lot about.

I often play a 4-piece when I teach and try a lot placements.

Now the placement that I have on my own kit doesn't really bother me anymore. I think this comes down to just slight adjustments. Thw only thing at this point is playing the bell when playing double bass, but if I went down to a 20" or took away a splash that would be solved, too. I'm continuing the search to find the optimal placement for me.

I've actually tried to space some of mhh cymbals out a little more recently and surprisingly that actually feels better to me.

[BennyAndTheSkins]

You get older, it doesn't make sense. You have to be more efficient. I feel myself crossing the line and I play maybe 3-4 hours a week? Try this:
Rise your right arm so it's playing the ride in a high position. With your other hand, touch your right shoulder. Notice the muscles are a bit tense because they're being used to hold up your right arm. Now lower your right arm until the should muscle relaxes. It's a lower ride height, uses less shoulder the hold up your arm.

I like how Buddy had it all along.

But playing with a low seat, high cymbals, and a trad grip waaay back on the but of the stick used to look so cool!

I think Chad has always had a pretty ergonomical setup, for playing a 7-piece kit. I currently have my ride at that same mid-shoulder height between right-rack tom, and floor tom.
It also helps if you shift the toms a bit to the left towards the hi-hat, so you can bring the ride cymbal in a few inches closer.

[langmick]

I enjoyed that, he was talking about subjects that ive also thought about, performing and the inner game. Not allowing the externailites of life a vector to the mind to dominate our mental state when playing...

like what Mike Portnoy doesnt do...

It was a bit too short though.

He looks like an old Italian uncle of mine! He also a PA guy.