Russ Miller leaves Yamaha- Yamaha moving to China?

[Paul Marangoni]

[willyz]

You know, some people will always just be full of shit.

But hey, it's good entertainment though.

[Richie Jarvis]

No one will know the truth behind his decision,it's just one of those things.

I was playing one brand of cymbals for over 2 decades and was handed some Paiste gear and fell in love with them.... Bought a stank and then got a deal.

Maybe one day the truth may be told or it might just be a simple change.

[Robert Bluman]

Of course! But that doesn't mean that you're endorsing the product. An endorsement is a business relationship.

Vinnie has a set of Sabians at his house too. I'm sure he gets sent great new gear from many companies. How many times do you sit behind someone's kit and it inspires you because it has a different sound going on. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about successful drummers who play in front of hundreds of thousands of people if not millions over the course of a year with LOGOS that advertise companies. That's a completely different animal. At home, these drummers will play whatever drums and cymbals they want. They are not hobbyists like most of the people in here with day gigs. This is their lively hood. For example, Dom Famularo has no music gigs. He earns some money by doing clinics and MC ing drum events. He has a great house on Long Island, a wife and sons that he supports. I'm sure his over head is huge. His main living other than clinics is being on salary with the companies he endorses. Believe what you want to believe, but in the big leagues, it's business. These great drummers who are out there touring with artists, playing on recordings and so on, do not advertise for companies for free. Gregg Bissonette sounds as good as he did on his Pearls as he does on his Mapex. Why would he leave Pearl? Financial reasons. Why did Keith Carlock leave Yamaha for Gretsch? Gretsch got major funding that year offering a clinic tour and monetary compensation along with comped gear. It's all business. These people sell gear for these companies. The fact that you're even talking about who's playing what, proves they are successful in the companies goal. It shouldn't matter. But it does, and they make money from it. If you're a great player you can play any drum kit.

[Paul Marangoni]

[Rene]

Well lets post this one again:



I'm not a professional drummer, but I do understand business models. Josiah what you describe is a very black / white perception on the matter. It might be true for one situation, but you can't generalize it. Sure, endorsement deals are a part of the business model. Everything that has money involved should be a part of the business model. Otherwise your not running your company very well. It is not the business model. Green Day drummer ..... admitted that he got Slingerland in financial problems cause he ruined a set every single concert. A side effect for the endorsee.

If I look at all the DW drum advertising video's, sure their endorsers help selling their stuff. Anton fig "admitted" that in his video "In the groove". He pays 0 bucks for his setup. Why: indeed, the companies (zildjian / yammi) get free advertisements. What is so special about that: nothing. But in fact he has been a long time endorser for those companies. Like Dennis has been for Pearl. Not forget Chad Smith here. And probably DW could offer Dennis a much better deal. What the heck, he played many times in Russia on a DW. Still, the DW sounded like shit ...

Before his gig with Sting, his big break, Keith Carlock might have had reasons to move to another company. Nowadays: seriously.....??

Why did Stanton Moore started his own Cymbal company .....? He could move to Zildjian and being offered 3, 4, 5, 6 digits as you describe??? But took a risky choice in stead ....???

Benny Greb comes to Holland for a clinic. I discussed this matter with one of the organizors. Who pays his hour rate: definitely not Sonor, not Meinl, not the local distributors. Why: it's part of their business model. A few options are left who is to pay his fee ....

Please write sound observations, put some nuance into it ....

[thewikiman]

The trouble with all this (endless) speculation about endorsements is that it's often not in the interests of endorsees to tell the truth (as Chad did there). I know players who are endorsed, and they seem to get a LOT of free stuff. They don't get paid. But they're not name players, yet it's not a discount situation, it's a free stuff situation. But non-name players are more likely to exaggerate what they're getting, right? It's impressive to say 'I get everything free' but maybe they actually don't.

Equally, the big name players are more likely to go the other way - to say 'no I don't get paid for this' because it's vulgar to say so, and because they have nothing to prove so don't want to brag about it.

From everything I've read, my conclusions are:

- Salaries are incredibly rare - but in the 90s there were a few more than there are now
- Tour support may not sound as cool as 'he gets X thousand a year' but it must save them a fortune - turning up wherever and a kit being made available in your spec, amazing
- The kind of mid-level endorsement, where you get free gear but if you want more you have to take the original stuff back, is actually relatively common
- If a drummer puts their name to something, they get actual cash rather than just free gear and tour support - Weckl's shoes, Erskine's stick-bag, signature snares. I'm guessing a tiny percentage of the profits (assuming the item gets into profit)

But it's all just a load more useless speculation.

[thewikiman]

By the way, something I find interesting is that Gretsch pursued Vinnie for five years. There's a 'Gretsch history' Q&A on YouTube somewhere where they tell the story - they found out he always used Gretsch in the studio, and they started trying to get him to endorse their drums from the start of the 90s. Eventually he called them and said 'I'm on SNL tonight with Sting, I've got my own Gretsch with me, but I need a bass-drum head with the logo on - let's do it.' I wonder why he didn't switch earlier?

Also interesting, is how many pics you see of studio sessions in this age of social media. I've seen Vinnie's Ludwigs in loads of pics now. So the whole 'everyone is a closet Gretsch user' thing must be a whole lot more difficult to pull off these days...

[beat hit]

Josiah what you describe is a very black / white perception on the matter.

Rene.. Who are you referring to as Josiah?? I don't see his name anywhere...

[circh bustom]

^^^^ I thought the same thing about the Josiah name drop. Always interesting when he was on.

I dont care about the speculation, my question is about Yamaha no longer making Birch Absolutes, i have been looking for a matching large tom 16" or 18" for years and never seem to find one when I have the cash. Do I really only have a few months to order a new one? Kinda worries my wife as musically generous as she is lol