Vinnie/Gretsch divorce?

[Rene]

Well last friday i spoke with my local drum shop owner. Vinnie's move to paiste was that he wanted the old Avedis sound. Zildjian wouldn't know how to recreate the old Avedis sound.Well this year (?) the new A line was released. Vinnie moved to paiste and created the ME line to vinnie's request. Moving back to Zildjian, that is hard to believe. On the other hand the market share of paiste in europe is at its lowest point. It doesn't sell over here. Btw the drum shop owner told me the same story about Thomas as mentioned in this threat. And here in Holland paiste and sonor are distributed by papen &bongaerts.

Also what weight does one's word hold on products if you keep switching?

It's the perception on endorsements, not? Product support? Business deal? getting paid?, loving the brand? Dutch drummer Ton Dijkman switches (on purposely??) every two years, now gretsch, before that Yamaha, N&c, pearl, DW. And he owns a Crav. He's honest: every drum manufacturer makes good sounding drums and he when he hears something new and better, he makes his choice.... Well the latter is my perception on his choice for endorsements.

So it probably didn't work out with Ludwig. Vinnie's going back to DW for the hardware, probably. It's good hardware indeed. I think he'll move to Sakae. Product support is still an issue. When Vinnie is in Europe, he can borrow Rodge's set that will solve that issue mostly.

[Morgenthaler]

Why for Vinnie ?

Because he has a lot of fans who will support him and therefore support the gear he's playing by buying it.
That's why there's such a thing as signature gear.

I used to sell drums for a living. Trust me, fan boys buy the gear their idols use, to a greater extend than anyone would like to think.
And if your idol is switching too often, it simply degrades his credibility and that of the gear company in question.

[Rodge]

Why for Vinnie ?

Because he has a lot of fans who will support him and therefore support the gear he's playing by buying it.
That's why there's such a thing as signature gear.

I used to sell drums for a living. Trust me, fan boys buy the gear their idols use, to a greater extend than anyone would like to think.
And if your idol is switching too often, it simply degrades his credibility and that of the gear company in question.

Like you say, "fan boys"...

Musicians, they really don't care, they just want the musician.

Billy Cobham used Tama, Fibes, Mapex...
Terry Bozzio too used several brands...

They are nothing but legend.

I understand that when you do commercial saying "this is the best shit ever..." then you change the brand it can be embarassing, but that's the way it is, it's part of the music instrument business, we just have to focus on the music.

[Morgenthaler]

Why for Vinnie ?

Because he has a lot of fans who will support him and therefore support the gear he's playing by buying it.
That's why there's such a thing as signature gear.

I used to sell drums for a living. Trust me, fan boys buy the gear their idols use, to a greater extend than anyone would like to think.
And if your idol is switching too often, it simply degrades his credibility and that of the gear company in question.

Like you say, "fan boys"...

Musicians, they really don't care, they just want the musician.

Billy Cobham used Tama, Fibes, Mapex...
Terry Bozzio too used several brands...

They are nothing but legend.

I understand that when you do commercial saying "this is the best shit ever..." then you change the brand it can be embarassing, but that's the way it is, it's part of the music instrument business, we just have to focus on the music.

We're 24 pages into this topic about Vinnie's gear. Here. On HOD. Where there's probably the lowest BS factor I've seen on music forums.
Many, even professional, musicians pay attention to these things.

I rest my case.

PS: I'm a fanboy. We all are, here on HOD.

[Old Pit Guy]

Why for Vinnie ?

Because he has a lot of fans who will support him and therefore support the gear he's playing by buying it.
That's why there's such a thing as signature gear.

I used to sell drums for a living. Trust me, fan boys buy the gear their idols use, to a greater extend than anyone would like to think.
And if your idol is switching too often, it simply degrades his credibility and that of the gear company in question.

Yes, they do. And I'd say it's pretty much shot to anyone even slightly cynical. However, if he doesn't endorse another brand for a year or ten, it's not so bad for him, right? Ludwig is another matter, but who cares. And this would be benign endorsement horseshit schtick if it weren't for that pant-load of ebullient, over the top Salesman Of the Year nonsense he blew all over YouTube after the switch-overs. But then buyers with GAS have short memories.

[captainziltoid]

Interesting....I'm sure he thoroughly put them through their paces. I would find it odd that it would be because of sound, though I don't dig it nearly as much as his Yamaha/Gretsch days. Can't wait to see what's going on.

[Odd-Arne Oseberg]

Why for Vinnie ? People hire Vinnie for HIM, not for the brand he plays...
He's a musician first, one of the best ever seen behind a drum, whatever the brand played, producers want Vinnie, whatever what drum he gonna use, don't you think so ?

I think it's true that a lot of drummers care, but I think we would be hard pressed to find even one musician on another instrument who would ever care.

Does it feel good? Does it sound good? End of story. As it should be.

Though drums are probably the least understood instrument among other musicians, most drummers don't really have much insight in the world og guitar, bass or the latest hip sax mouthpiece eother, so....... I would be one of those that do, but have I met anyone likeminded ever? Not really. It does mean I can have an in to a different converstaion with other instrumentalists, though.

There are many multi-instrumentalists in the world, but in general these insights are rare.

People have "better" things to do.


Offcourse, Vinnie is an inspiration to me, and my Gretsch Zildjian choice was based on sounds I heard from him. That's still my preference. Those warm tones of those Gretsch toms. mmmmmmmmm..... Never heard any Ludwig sound like that. They have more of a cool growl to my ears. What I guess is what Vinnie refers to as throathy. That's a cool sound. Not my sound, though.

[Rodge]

For the record, other musicians do care about what drummers use as drum both live and studio.

Believe me, I was with Lee Ritenour, he knows about drums, Melvin Lee Davis too, same for Tom Kennedy.
I use backline gear even for the cymbals, and everyday they were talkingabout the drum du jour, those guys love Gretsch, Yamaha, and they know what they want as drum sound.

They are aware about everything like us, I was really impressed.

[Odd-Arne Oseberg]

I think big name jazz guys and producers care and either dabble or are originally drummers.

The average musician I personally work with is usually as green as they come, though.

We obviously, especially today when most average people can afford pretty high end stuff, also have tons of gear nerds who really can't play. Not really sure how that is in the drum world. You so it in the guitar world a ton, but guitar players also thend to grow on trees. Good drummers are few and far between.

Not considering myself a good drummer, though. The few seconds I shared of a 16th note groove in my new home thread is hardly up to the standard of what I prefer to play with as a guitar player. It's getting there, though. Hopefully.

Who knew drums were this hard. They just hit things, don't they?

[Lucas Ives]

I think big name jazz guys and producers care and either dabble or are originally drummers.

That's a fact ... I know Chick Corea plays a little, and Will Lee plays drums with The Fab Faux on a couple of tunes. I was doing a lesson with Tom Kennedy once when he decided the best way to get a point across was to show me an idea on the kit.

As for the gear thing, who knows what VC's arrangement with Ludwig was. Maybe it was a "I'll try this for a year" sort of thing, maybe not. But for a guy with a touring schedule like his who can hand-pick his endorsements, support on the road is going to be super important.

Also agree about sonic issues. The only drums I always enjoy listening to are Yamaha/Sakae, Gretsch, Sonor, and the high end of Pearl's line. VC's move to Ludwig was surprising to me, so his departure really isn't.