What separates the truly great from the merely skilled?

[gretsch-o-rama]

Miles said that in the end everything comes down to the ability to 'envision' or 'imagine' sound/notes without being dependent of your instrument. Good players are good because they practice, genius players are so because they hear everything [right]. Beethoven was stone-deaf when he wrote some of his masterpieces… how big is the world in your head? How long is your story? Do you hear stuff that other people just don't 'hear'? But it is Weckl who always comes with supportive remarks like 'there is a place for everyone in the business' or 'sure, try to be the best in the world, why not?'. And I think it was Vinnie who said that the most successful [studio] players are not the best musicians but the best psychologists…haha!

I'd pretty much have to agree with everything about this. Without abusing the cliche, "hearing things", all the technique and practice can be made moot and obsolete if you can't hear yourself and others you're playing with. I don't mean in a technical sense, "hear", but the ability to hear the emotion and meaning behind what you're doing and what others around you are doing......if you can do that, the picture very much comes into focus, IMO.

[gretsch-o-rama]

But you're talking about fame here, there is great in every countries

Yes - that's my point. The issue pretty much comes down to semantics.
JR or Ricky Lawson are/were not necessarily better or 'greater' session pop drummers than Per, but the fame makes us speak of them
as 'the greats'. The exposure (the fame) is what makes them greater than others. Obviously they are greater than a ton of other drummers, but you get my point.


The greatest early 90s era heavy/funk drummer is Dion Derek, but his level of (= lack of) exposure keeps him totally out of that conversation.

You may be implying that it comes down to what others think of musicians that makes them so "great". With which I might agree.....Because that's an almost accidental place to get to....if you try too hard to make people think fondly of you, you(I) usually fail. So what it might be is that the greats are so great because they can be themselves no matter what the circumstances or how much stress and pressure there might be, IMO.

[Julián Fernández]

The greats are the ones showing us the way... To me the great are the ones with strong voices and unique features. JR or Ghrol are not on my list... They´re amazing musicians, but not in the same league as Tony, Buddy, Vinnie, Weck, Tain, Copeland, Elvin and many others... The voice, the vision (along with crazy facility in most cases) is what separates the very good from the ones writing history...

[DrumGodsey]

I believe it's the drummers that change our lives for the Better!!

[Odd-Arne Oseberg]

In addition to good facility and you have to have your own voice and get in to what you feel is the essence of the music. You can focus on, add to the art and make it work while being yourself.

Then you are a great musician regardless of fame or how it fits with the taste of others.

What holds people back is generally lack of humility IMO.

[gretsch-o-rama]

I also love posts that start with, "Miles said." haha

[willyz]

Blind/dumb luck, the year they were born/era that they came up in, who they know, honest talent, work ethic, a good set of ears, good (enough) personality, and being in the right place at the right time.

[Matthijs Ament]

I don't think 'luck' is a big factor in being truly great. But there are definitely truly great players who do not stand in the spotlight 24/7. So I think a truly great player can have BAD LUCK, and not live out the full [musical] potential. But I do not believe for a second that Dennis Chambers, Chris Dave, David Garibaldi just 'got lucky'. Winners never quit and quitters never win…sure, but that has nothing to do with your musical skills. The fact that Gadd is gonna be the humblest guy you'll ever meet, and that he himself will say 'I happened to be in the right place' does not matter. The man is HUGE. You get it or you don't. Buddy liked 'that kid' …and that was for good reason. Tony Williams was 15 [?] or so when he started playing with Miles…you think he just got lucky….?…. When Prince wanted a record deal he just kept on walking in the office 'till they gave his stuff a listen. He would not back down. Desire and talent!!!….just look at Stevie Wonder…and get wise.

[willyz]

Well, I did list talent.

I think looping in a name like Tony in your post is a bit rambunctious. Tony was a prodigy, and of course it was his talent that got him those gigs at such a young age.

But this day in age (and this goes off topic a bit), such raw talent probably isn't enough any more. Mike Johnson is more of a 'name' than say, Gergo Borlai, even though he can run circles around Johnson in every aspect of the instrument. Being in a in a certain market, how much you whore yourself out, how gullible people are, and how much media is available, etc, are all much more important than talent today.

[Old Pit Guy]

Chance, circumstances and personality.

I was thinking about this earlier. I want to add warmth to the above, and maybe move it to first position. Musical, personal .. warmth.