What separates the truly great from the merely skilled?

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Steph, you're forgetting that it's not Dave or Peter doing that promotion, but it's Steve Orkin doing it FOR those guys (as well as for Steve Smith, and others). Rodge is correct. The truly great drummers don't think about the promotional side of things. It's not because they don't want to promote themselves and get more work, but it's because they're busy making music and to make really great music, you must give it your all. To do really great promotion that reaches many people and gets traction, you have to give THAT your full attention. This is why the drummers who are everywhere on YouTube and Facebook are usually mediocre at best.

I re-read the entire thread one more time.. Rodge's reply was related to percusski's comment "I wish I could get my marketing shit together like MJ etc...some are natural self promoters...".. In that context, yes I agree with Rodge, today's Social media self-promotion model is almost a full time job... Can't totally self-promote and remain super sharp as a musician/artist at the same time. So I did miss the context of Rodge's point...

I think we'd agree that Dave Weckl is a good example of someone who's a great musician with a very good flare for the business aspect of music, which includes "marketing". Maybe not so much "self-promotion" per se, in the way we understand it today with YouTube, Tweeter, FB, etc.

Yet, throughout his amazingly rich career since the mid-80's, it's my assumption (correct me if I am wrong) that he's been willingly involved in getting the ball rolling to market himself in a significant way at one time of another. This is NOT saying that's he's doing it all.. But he willingly surrounded himself with the right team to get the job done.

[bclarkio]

I believe greatness comes from inside, and has a lot to do with perception, and feeling.

Take painting, as an example.

A skilled painter might be able to reproduce the subject exactly as it appears, so that it looks just like its photograph.

More skill, and the painter moves things around, and highlights the things that are important.

A painter approaches greatness when the subject takes on a life of its own, and is displayed in ways not thought of before.

When a painter's depth of perception of the world joins with his intense feel for it, and both of those are transmitted to the viewer, that is greatness.

[Avi_drums]

How ? Dave sucks online, and that's fine, he doesn't have to be online, he's busy.

That's right. Those even remotely serious about online marketing have basic tools like a mobile compliant site. I think there was a reluctance by some of the 'old school' to embrace the new technology, to instead, sort of rest on their laurels. They didn't anticipate this wave of democratization, or didn't feel the need to acknowledge it. And they have their niche, (however small, and diminishing in some cases). The fact your online marketing strategy is old and outdated may be the least of your concerns.

Anyway, someone great can take a stick, hit a floor tom and create a musical event with that one stroke. Your ear picks up, and it's like 'what the fuck was that?'. Someone else can play a ton of licks and it doesn't mean a thing.

[beat hit]

Anthony Jackson chose his words really well when he paid tribute to Steve Gadd at the "American Drummers Achievement Awards", he nailed it.

If you have not done so already, listen to this DVD, and you'll hear a very good example of what defines a "great" drummer.

http://www.amazon.ca/American-Drummers-Achievement-Honoring-Zildjian/dp/B0006877LG

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Quote below is copied from "WEEKEND CHATTY 4/4/2014 EDITION!!!!!`1111111!!11wonone" BEFORE it disappears Monday...

Another great example of: "What separates the truly great from the merely skilled?"

We have all heard the mama chola dave Weckl solo. That is the greatest drum solo of all time. At least in my book. The syncopation - ideas - execution - it's in 9 - his sound - brilliant phrasing,

Because of the complex nature of everything involved with "Mama Chóla", I knew that it was going to very, very special. Before we played a single note of it, I took Dave Weckl aside and played him Steve Jordan's original groove. I have to be honest here, it was my hope that Dave was going to say something like: "Wow, that's really incredible! I'll do something very much like that." But, as much as Dave probably admired Steve's unique approach, he chose to go down his own path. It goes without saying that he performed brilliantly on the entire recording and especially this tune. It cannot be overstated just much I admire a drummer's ability to negotiate such a complex piece of music, contribute one of the most incredible drum solos ever recorded, and then, come out of it and drive the piece home. All spanning more than 10-minutes. But, there's a great, great story here too, so allow me to now share that with everyone.

When we began to rehearse "Mama Chóla", I explained to Dave that there would be a drum solo at letter [E] over the [I] feel. He just looked at me as if I were completely and totally nuts and said: "Forget it!" That was Day #1 of the rehearsals. Two days later, he came in and told me, "You know, I would like to try to play over that thing in 'Mama Chóla.'" From that moment forward, he totally killed it every single time. I remember that, during the recording, I was totally knocked out by what I was hearing, experiencing, but, more than this, I felt an incredible sense of responsibility to hold it all together for Dave because he, of course, deserves that from Anthony and me. Like Steve Jordan's drum solo on "Casa Loco", Dave's solo knocks me out every time I hear it. It is simply brilliant, and a miracle to me that a drummer, any drummer, can perform throughout all the composed sections with grace and creativity, react to a guitar solo, and then, perform a solo over an odd meter, and still finish off his last responsibilities to the composition. Wow! For those of you who hold Dave's talents in the highest regard, as I do, this small anecdote should give you some hope. Hope because, at least for a brief moment in time, there was actually something that he felt that he couldn't do. But, after thinking about it, look what he was able to do. It is a tribute to his talent and his will. The lesson here, for all of us, is to simply never give up on anything. There's always a way!