A Letter from Bob Moses to the Boston Phoenix (2001)

[cjbdrm]

Maybe if you guys keep talking smack about Bob Moses he'll be motivated to come on here and rip you all a new a@#hole...haha

[gretsch-o-rama]

I think it's apparent that in the music world , you'll never get to the top by imitating. Take Keith Carlock for example, he's pretty much as big as a drum star gets now'a'days. He's been on the cover of just

about every drum magazine and has played with major names. The thing is, Carlock, doesn't sound like anybody else at this point. His drum sound is instantly identifiable. On the other end, you have

someone like Jeff Berlin who, to me, has a clear precedent, Jaco. I've read interviews with Berlin about how tough it was for him to get studio work. That's not to say that Jeff Berlin doesn't have his own

sound, but I believe that when artists of the level that are calling people like Carlock to be a part of their music, they want him to bring that "Carlock" thing like nobody else can. Metheny's perspective may

not be the norm and is unique but is none the less valid.(Metheny is an artist of the highest level) And I find it funny that points to the late 70's-early 80's as a time when people stopped trying to find their

own voice.

I do think that with every great artist, there should be an incubation period. I've heard Vinnie talk about Buddy Rich obsession in his formative years. With Metheny it was Wes Montgomery. Different artists

will be in this stage longer than others, especially if they grapple with technical proficiency, but I think that at some point everyone should step out and try to find "themselves". Metheny started to pursue

his own voice at a very early age as did a lot of great artists, I suspect...

[DSOP]

someone like Jeff Berlin who, to me, has a clear precedent, Jaco. I've read interviews with Berlin about how tough it was for him to get studio work.

From a Jeff Berlin interview:

Jeff: I've always felt like there has got to be something on this instrument that isn't about being fretless and harmonics. So many players haven't gotten past Jaco's contributions.

GB: They really do seem to be stuck on him, don't they?

Jeff: It's obvious to me and, by your comment, it's obvious to you. But, if you ever suggest to a fretless guy that what they are playing puts them smack dab into the Jaco clone camp, get ready to duck. Those guys don't like to be told that their careers are based on the musical contributions of another player.

GB: One can't help but wonder, without trying to put words in Jaco's mouth, that he might be wondering when we are going to just get over it.

Jeff: Jaco was hurt about how so many players used his style and made their careers from it. He wasn't flattered by the outright imitation of his playing style. Metheny told me this years ago.

Up until today, fretless players slide harmonics, chords and harmonics. . .

GB: Spam, spam, spam, eggs with spam, spam with eggs.

Jeff: It's hard to be different on your instrument. It takes years and lots of dedication. And how do you do that? It's by denying yourself access to someone else's playing unless you are a new player just putting your playing skills together. In this case, it's a great idea to imitate players. Just don't hold onto their styles too long.

Years ago Keith Jarrett told me this story. He never liked to play with electric bass players, but he gave me a ride home one day after a gig in New York that we both played on. He was in one band. I was in another, by the way. Miles was maybe one of the most beautiful ballad players of any of the Jazz musicians. He was a phenomenal player in that regard. One day he stopped playing them. Keith asked him, 'Why did you stop playing ballads?' Miles said to Keith, 'I stopped playing ballads because I love to play them so much.'

He felt he was in a situation where he couldn't grow. So he denied himself access to a playing style that he was comfortable in so that he could challenge himself in musical styles that he wasn't.


And from another interview:

If you are a beginning player you WANT to imitate bass players. You imitate the concepts of all the good walking players, the R&B players, the funk players, the jazz players, the good rock players. But as you progress through the higher echelons of music and become someone developing your own concepts, you will not want to sound like those people anymore. As a professional career looms large, you will want to do away with imitation. To be a Jaco clone or a Stanley Clarke clone, you really don't want that professionally. You know what I mean?

[YamahaPlayer]

I'd have to disagree gretsch-o-rama. Carlock is only popular amongst the "drum geeks" - sorry better term?

In the general population, the most famous guys have little originality.

For instance, Joey Joridson has been named numerous times "Best Metal Drummer" his income is probably comma's past Carlock's, Joey's number of cover articles far extends past Carlock's. Travis Barker is incredibly popular and prob has a worth 10x Carlock (no offense Keith). The list goes on, simply check the polls in the major drum publications and look at units sold. Slipknot VS Krantz... that's not even a comparison in popularity.

Keith is awesome, but his units sold doesn't touch popular main stream bands. And that has a direct correlation to popularity and income.


Look at what Justin Beiber (and backing crew) are doing right now. There's not a shred of originality in any of that music. But hey, no doubt he's clocking some HUGE income.

It really comes down to how you define "success". Popularity is easily quantifiable in numerous ways, and as much as we love our chops dudes, they really aren't that popular in the scheme of things - unfortunately.


It wasn't that long ago drum battles were on the most popular late night shows.... the world has changed, the industry has changed. Skill does not equate success anymore. The most "successful" musical artists of today are based on proven formula's.

Point in case, and what I tell every student who asks about professional playing - 2 & 4 makes money. Busting out your latest sick layered groove and epic flam dense fills do not.

[DSOP]

Another Jeff Berlin quote from yet another interview:


As a sideman, I used to do Kmart commercials with the Brecker brothers. The other two big bass players on the scene at that time were Anthony Jackson and Will Lee. Eventually I got more into my artsy thing and sort of left the studio scene. The thing about “style” is that nobody really needs it, unless you are so art orientated to such a degree that your virtuosity improves the sound of the band. So yeah, Dominique (DiPiazza) has done himself a good thing, and he has done himself some harm, as well as I have, and even Jaco when he was alive. Jaco was so new, and so fresh, and yet there wasn’t a whole lot for him to do outside of the few jazz opportunities that were there. And after he left Weather Report he did his leader thing, and even that began to fade, and this was before he had his mental breakdown. He was not working in the same capacity as he had worked as principally the biggest name on electric bass at that time. That virtuosic approach is for us. It’s for me…it’s for what I do. But it doesn’t lend itself toward being an opportunity for other people that may want to use me. So Carlos (Santana) may call me the best bass player in the world, but he will not hire the best bass player in the world because he doesn’t “need” the best bass player, and that’s Dominique’s problem as well.

[Gaddabout]

Sort of in wonder this debate goes on.

There is no way to develop your own voice without first copying the work of others. At least, I can't think of any other. I suppose if you took five kids -- a drummer, a bassist, a keyboardist, a guitarist, and a saxophonist -- to a deserted island and fed them ONLY theory their entire lives, they'd grow into completely uninspired great jazz players with their own sound. Maybe. And then they'd come to America, hear their first power chord, and they'd all want to become rock and roll stars.

But I digress.

Every individual landmark sound of a truly great player grows in the garden of inspiration of other players. Those things evolve, and I do not think it's fruitful for us to sit here and try and establish some kind of baseline criteria for when every player is supposed to break off from their influences. Is music somehow lessened by Dave Weckl hitting it big before he broke out of his Gadd obsession? Dude has one of the most unique and distinctive voices on the drum set in the world now. We've watched him evolve into rare form. Thank God we didn't have Bob Moses writing screeds about him in the Post-Dispatch back in the day or he might have crushed one of the all-time great drummers before he got started.

[gretsch-o-rama]

I guess what I meant by the "top" is the most widely respected and revered, not who has the most money. Having money in music sometimes has very little to do with skill or talent. Agreed Jeff Berlin is

maybe not the best example of the other end of the spectrum but there are some players out there that you can definitely hear their influences... I think Metheny is right about people stopping finding

themselves at some point. I think that has to do with the overall development of the artform and I mean each individual instrument. If you think about it the only place left to go is back down the ladder and

I think music in general is already taking that turn. Quality is no longer mainstream for certain... What were we talking about? lol

[cjbdrm]

Gretch, I hear what you're saying- and agree that Keith Carlock's distinctive voice on the instrument has certainly contributed to his success...

Man, that quote about Miles not playing ballads was some profoundly deep shit...!

Every individual landmark sound of a truly great player grows in the garden of inspiration of other players.

Another gem by Gaddabout

Blessed to have you here, my brother!

[YamahaPlayer]

All great stuff!

Here's two quotes that have stuck with me since I heard them as a player.

Miles Davis - "If you aren't making a mistake, then you aren't playing."

Eric Clapton - "I'll be the best guitarist when I can move an audience to tears with one note."

[Henry II]

Bob Moses is so full of sh*t that I can smell him through my computer screen. . . .

I was wondering where that was coming from. I was about to blame the dog.