DOUBLE BASSDRUM PEDAL to HIHAT FOOT TRANSFERENCE

[Juan Expósito]

I am thinking about buying a double bass drum pedal (It would be the first one for me)
It will be, almost for sure, only for practicing/fun purposes…
Question for double pedal players:
Have you improved your left foot (for hi-hat foot playing) as a result of your practice with the left foot work with the double bass drum pedal?
I imagine that the answer is YES. I think it has to be a positive transference in terms of independence…
But I would like that some of you say something about these improvements/applications or thoughts when you are not playing with the double BD pedal and you´re playing just with the HIHAT foot pedal.

And if you in the way, can recommend me your best option, it would be great.

I think I need a last push to make my buying order…

[YamahaPlayer]

Yes, but for me it was the other way around. I use my hi-hat foot a LOT, for a variety of sounds, splashes, upbeat chicks, syncopated splashes/chicks, etc so it transferred over when I got a double bass pedal. For instance, not sure what it's called but the open/close splash-sizzle thing on the hats is the same heel-toe technique as on the kick pedals (least for me).

I would say the overall interdependence improves for sure. The double kick allows you to explore a wide range of possibilities both as just the left foot kick, and using your foot across both the hihat pedal and left kick pedal. Carter Beauford loves to pull that stuff out, particularly on the early DMB albums and it's very tasty.

As far as pedals, they probably make a double version of whatever single pedal you currently use.

I use DW5K's and IC Lever Glides, think I like the lever glides a lil more right now (but that changes periodically). Anything high end from the major companies is going to be great and last forever.

[Niles]

I don't use the double pedal much in songs, but I do practice with it. I've been going through Stick Control with it - starting slowly - heel down, letting the beater come off of the head. This isn't to just get crazy double bass chops - it helps with control - your hihat foot too.

Set-up wise, I'd suggest that you try putting the slave bass drum pedal on the outside of the hihat pedal. See if it's comfortable to you - I like it because I spend a lot more time on the hihat pedal than the double kick pedal - this way I don't have to change my usual positioning (moving my hihat leg wider).

I think I'm going to move on from my DW 5000 and try a Trick pedal - ask around, some other guys here will have suggestions as what to buy.

[bstocky]

I agree that having good HH independence helps with playing dbl.bass but I don't think playing double bass has improved my left foot independence at all. Usually when people play double bass it's for long rolls or short bursts of speed. Someone like Keith Carlock or Bill Stewart would have a lot more advanced left foot independence then most great double bass players (depending on who you think is great). Now if you're playing multiple sound sources with your feet like Thomas Lang, Marco Minnemann, Benny Greb, Horacio Hernandez, Akira Jimbo, etc that's a whole other story.

edit - I also play with my dbl.pedal on the left side of the high-hat. I've used DW pedals for at least 20 years. I currently play a 9000 dbl. pedal. Try a bunch out and get whatever one seems right to you.
Also, Joe Franco's Double Bass Drumming is a very good book for learning basic double bass. Once you finish it you can tweak the patterns using Gavin's substitutions concept and a few other tricks. Virgil Donati's book is way more advanced if you're into that sort of thing.

[Juan Expósito]

I agree that having good HH independence helps with playing dbl.bass but I don't think playing double bass has improved my left foot independence at all. Usually when people play double bass it's for long rolls or short bursts of speed. Someone like Keith Carlock or Bill Stewart would have a lot more advanced left foot independence then most great double bass players (depending on who you think is great). Now if you're playing multiple sound sources with your feet like Thomas Lang, Marco Minnemann, Benny Greb, Horacio Hernandez, Akira Jimbo, etc that's a whole other story.

I agree. I got some HH foot pedal repertory incorporated to my playing that I apply in different ways and styles (rock/funk/jazz...). When I´ve played some double pedal, I quickly imported my left foot HH patterns and some basic patterns/beats sounded... Sometimes I mount a left foot pedal with a cowbell/tambourine just for the fun/practice and it stimulates some figures/patterns that aren´t so obvious/listenable with the hh pedal.

I think that, for the recent future, the double pedal won´t hit the stage. I am just thinking about the kick/sound factor in the left side, has to add something to the table that your left foot appreciates, even when the double pedal is not there.…

[Jim Richman]

Just get one. Many well accomplished players use a double pedal. There are many fun things you can do with it. You can play really cool linear fills, have exciting endings on songs, play drags and ruff grace notes with your feet. Plus, if you have to do drum solo, a nice medium tempo chuggah chuggah always gets the audience rocking.

[chris perra]

For me using double pedal is a completely different approach.. It does expand your Independence and coordination, but they are different things and alot of what you do on double bass won't really transfer well to hihat in a musical sense groove wise. Because the 2 ft in double bass are creating the kick rhythm where as the hihat ft is usually an accessory to a fundamental groove. You just need to listen to a Thomas Lang instruction video to see the damage you can do groove wise playing with fire.. haha..

But get a set, double bass is awesome...If you play rock.. do it...

I'm partial to Iron Cobras, But any brand these days are great. Even a crap 150 to 200 dollar Gibralter or Ludwig are quite good.. Back in the 90's there was big differences in brands, and the cheap ones were garbage. But nowdays unless you want to be a blastbeat Death Metal freak any reputable brand will be fine..

[deseipel]

I like Pearl eliminators, but Ive also played DW 5000s (back when there was no 7000 or 9000 I think). I would guess that even the gibraltar direct drives are nice.

the heel toe thing really does transfer well to the double pedal, but there's still some training required.

[Gaddabout]

My personal opinion -- and I think the experience here confirms it -- how much value you get out of the double pedal depends greatly on what you practice with the double pedal. In the past I've tried a double pedal with 4-Way and found it ... too challenging and kind of boring. It's hard to imagine a lot of MUSICAL applications to that kind of independence without just using the hi-hat foot instead of the left pedal.

[YamahaPlayer]

My personal opinion -- and I think the experience here confirms it -- how much value you get out of the double pedal depends greatly on what you practice with the double pedal.

Bingo. It's almost like.. "Should I use 2 floor toms or 1?"

Franco's book is good, outdated though. I'd recommend the Double Bass Encyclopedia as it covers the material in Franco's, and much much more in a fairly progressive and easy to work through layout. Also Jeff Bowder's 'Mirrored' Double Bass books are a super cool approach to it.
The double bass is definitely a highly abused aspect of playing, if you consciously stay away from the cliche you'll find there is a whole world of tasty coolness to be explored.

IMO if you are spending more then $400 you are getting ripped off on a pedal. They all do the same job, and all of them most excellently. If you want to spend the cash, then replace the bearings. My DW5K's just crush anything as far as smoothness goes once I replaced the cheap crap bearings that (ALL) pedals come with. Actually surprises me that all companies use the most cheap generic bearings in their pedals, yet many claim to be the fastest or smoothest on the market. You'd think one of em would strike up a deal with Bone's or something.